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Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

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Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#51

Post by vintermann »

wodenokoto wrote: post #34
vikingerik wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cover-your-ass blame-avoidance, like most things that public entities do. It's the preemptive answer to "why didn't you stop this bad behavior", so they can be seen to have taken some measure against it. Any resulting misuse is out of scope.

How is it cover-your-ass? We had the recording but didn’t listen to it sounds worse than we can’t determine if that conversation actual took place on our vehicle.

Oh, as long as they can show that they zealously reported people for talking about blowing up houses in Minecraft, they will be forgiven for not catching the people who talked about blowing up real houses. False positives can be a feature when what you're really after is displaying your zeal.

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#52

Post by eth0up »

cm2187 wrote: post #50
ForrestN wrote: post #14

I'm curious what the (presumably delusional) for case for this is. Like, why would anyone think this would even be useful? Is it to combat crime? It says something vague in the article about "rider safety" but I don't really get that. What sort of incident would require hearing conversations between riders? Do they want this so that if one person verbally harasses another rider they can prove it? It just seems like t…

Though I am not sure I understand the case against either, what you say in a bus can be overheard by anyone, it's not really a private conversation, and if you accept the concept of video surveillance, having also audio is a small incremental step.

Being 'overheard', especially by those in your immediate view, is significantly different from being recorded and then overheard by unseen unknown strangers indefinitely.

There is also a potential difference between camera and audio surveillance. Not that I approve of either, and I acknowledge the extreme but less common abilities of camera technology (IR, microexpression, iris analysis, etc), but having one's relatively statiic shell filmed could be perceived as less personal than eavesdropping on a much more dynamic and varying aspect of self than a bad hair day. After all, when we go out in public, most healthy people don't believe they're invisible. We have much more discretion over who hears our thoughts than who sees our faces. Audio is more intrusive in this way. Standard images of our physical appearances don't quite compare to the enormity of subject material, moods, and mind that the funkiest wardrobe simply couldn't articulate.

From the perspective you present, shouldn't anyone in public be perfectly content with mind-reading, or interrogation where the former fails?

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#53

Post by bell-cot »

dzink wrote: post #28

I would argue right to privacy until riding enough public transport and hitting enough incidents that make you wish someone was watching. Some incidents: 1. A man as red as a tomato with anger yelling at the top of his lungs that he was going to kill a woman and following her out the door at Chicago’s blue line. 2. A woman begging with a toddler-aged child that was constantly drowsy / appeared sedated on a line multi…

This +100. Having Security Officers on buses costs an incredible amount of money. Over time, just one semi-regular "problem passenger" can drive away hundreds of regular transit users.

Video/audio certainly can be done wrong, and won't magically fix the problem - but put yourself in the shoes of a transit system manager who's got both a tight budget and a problem passenger problem. You gotta DO SOMETHING to fix this! Full video & audio sure feel like they'd help get the police to do something, or a judge to sign a Protection Order, or the Prosecutor to press charges, or the jury to convict. And if the DHS is paying for it?

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#54

Post by lm28469 »

ForrestN wrote: post #14

I'm curious what the (presumably delusional) for case for this is. Like, why would anyone think this would even be useful? Is it to combat crime? It says something vague in the article about "rider safety" but I don't really get that. What sort of incident would require hearing conversations between riders? Do they want this so that if one person verbally harasses another rider they can prove it? It just seems like t…

You might be interested in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_Unite...

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#56

Post by kwhitefoot »

dontknowwhyihn wrote: post #38
UtopiaPunk wrote: post #32

Put the same microphone surveillance in private jets and yachts, then I'll be okay with this

It’s funny you say that- I assume all private jets are bugged. Too many important people fly on them. If DHS is recording conversations on buses, why wouldn’t they want to listen to the conversations of much wealthier and more powerful people?

> why wouldn’t they want to listen to the conversations of much wealthier and more powerful people?

Because those people can have a word with your boss and he can make your life difficult. Of course this only applies to the really powerful people so one would pick and choose who to bug and which bugs to make public use of later.

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#57

Post by Hello71 »

stickfigure wrote: post #40
fahrradflucht wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think these things can be solved by surveillance? I doubt people like you are describing are deterred by that and I don’t think DHS will start hunting possible homeless beggars because they have recordings. What actually increases safety and one of the reason public transport was / felt safer in the past is more personal. If there are train guards on the ride or platform managers at the station, they ca…

Stuff like this happens: https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-5... Hard to imagine how to solve it without surveillance.

according to that article, the train and station already had surveillance cameras. the current post and comment thread are about surveillance microphones; how would that help with the investigation in your article, where we can reasonably assume that the robbers were shouting things like "open your bag" and "give me your wallet", and interview witnesses to confirm our assumption?

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#58

Post by baud147258 »

kodah wrote: post #42

This article is from 2012, but it never ceases to amaze me that people will make excuses to strip themselves of freedom for a small semblance of safety that will never be.

There's a real loss of privacy, I won't disagree on that, but what freedom(s) are lost when microphones are placed in public buses?

And the use I could see for surveillance of public transportation, to help for incidents that devolve in he said/they said (or worse he said/the police said); so more for a question of justice than safety

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#59

Post by tarakat »

dheera wrote: post #15
lonelycompiler wrote: post #7

Probably a good idea to add the year to the title (2012)

Ambiguity => more comments => more "engagement" => hit the front page faster

Plus it's no longer relevant since this program, and mass surveillance in general, are slowly being phased out /s

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#60

Post by Olphs »

stickfigure wrote: post #40
fahrradflucht wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think these things can be solved by surveillance? I doubt people like you are describing are deterred by that and I don’t think DHS will start hunting possible homeless beggars because they have recordings. What actually increases safety and one of the reason public transport was / felt safer in the past is more personal. If there are train guards on the ride or platform managers at the station, they ca…

Stuff like this happens: https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-5... Hard to imagine how to solve it without surveillance.

> Hard to imagine how to solve it without surveillance.

Really? Hopefully not

How about giving support for people who need it? How about giving teens options to do something else than roam the streets and gang up? How about giving support to stop generational drug use? How about showing these kids that they have a brighter future ahead if they choose to act on it? How about figuring out how to fix the massive polarisation of opinions, beliefs, income, opportunities etc.?

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