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Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#151

Post by bruce511 »

cowtools wrote: post #132
bruce511 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point of view here will depend somewhat on your level of success. In the current model, the barrier to entry is pretty low. $99 gets you xcode, plus you need done hardware. Once you've made something you need to reach a market. A good market place (like a regular super market) brings together suppliers and customers. That market has costs. One model for costs is to charge each app the same amount. Say, for examp…

> In the current model, the barrier to entry is pretty low. $99 gets you xcode, plus you need done hardware. Hundreds of dollars in apple hardware and software compared to zero dollars for MSVC community, zero dollars for android developer studio, zero dollars for linux toolchain or whatever. >Once you've made something you need to reach a market. A good market place (like a regular super market) brings together supp…

>>What do you want them to do, throw their hands in the air and say "welp, them's the rules, I guess we can should never try to use our leverage or negotiate better rules cause that's just how it is I guess."

They can choose not to play. If Apple is not offering any value for their 30% then simply don't publish on IOS.

If all the developers stop developing for IOS then the rules would change.

Of course small developers have no power because individually they have no power, and they are not willing to pool that power collectively (ie unionize).

They're trying to get the govt to act as a collective bargainer on their behalf. Which is likely to fail,because Apple is better at govt than they are.

So yeah, I expect them to say "I can make more money elsewhere, so I'm leaving ios - the fact they don't suggests apple is adding plenty of value worthy of their 30%

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#152

Post by nfcampos »

cowtools wrote: post #132
bruce511 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point of view here will depend somewhat on your level of success. In the current model, the barrier to entry is pretty low. $99 gets you xcode, plus you need done hardware. Once you've made something you need to reach a market. A good market place (like a regular super market) brings together suppliers and customers. That market has costs. One model for costs is to charge each app the same amount. Say, for examp…

> In the current model, the barrier to entry is pretty low. $99 gets you xcode, plus you need done hardware. Hundreds of dollars in apple hardware and software compared to zero dollars for MSVC community, zero dollars for android developer studio, zero dollars for linux toolchain or whatever. >Once you've made something you need to reach a market. A good market place (like a regular super market) brings together supp…

>The only fair model here is the one where 100% of apple's income comes from hardware sales alone. That is the only situation where you don't set up the user to be exploited by erecting these walls around what they can and cannot run on their own hardware.

And that is what we call the slippery slope.

Apple has created a successful product, therefore developers want to make money from it, therefore apple cannot charge a fee for access, therefore apple cannot charge for developer tools, therefore apple cannot charge for hardware (lest it makes the developers market smaller than it could be if phones were free)

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#153

Post by JumpCrisscross »

int_19h wrote: post #54
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Next you'll tell me that the top funder of disease advocacy groups is big pharma, and that the top funders of YIMBY groups are huge property owners This is called coalition building. It's powerful if done openly. There is a natural alliance between small app developers and the App Store. That Apple was underhanded in its support is unsavory. But a legitimate, rational small-developer lobby wouldn't rule out working…

Why would small developers work to prop up a giant who already has so much power imbalance wrt them that they pretty much cannot do anything if it decides to, say, yank their app from the store for uncertain reasons?

> Why would small developers work to prop up a giant who already has so much power imbalance

Because the alternative to fighting that power is wielding it. Coalitions are temporary alignments of interests. They're a hallmark of democracies. Their mechanics are highly selective against dogmatists; generally a good thing. Unfortunately when it comes to communities with a high concentration of purists, this knack for pragmatism can backfire by driving disillusionment.

Put another way: do you see small developers benefiting more by allying with big developers against Apple?

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#154

Post by Dylan16807 »

eigen wrote: post #115
fastball wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're misunderstanding the GP. They're talking about services provided entirely by other people, e.g. buying ebooks from Amazon. In that light, here are the responses to your bullets: - the hardware I already paid for - this should be included in the price of the hardware (and certainly is in the case of Apple) - I don't use the Books app, I use the Amazon Kindle app - I never listened to a podcast on my iPo…

> - I don't use the Books app, I use the Amazon Kindle app Amazon Kindle Direct Publishing offers 2 options: 35% royalty and 70% royalty. https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200644210 You can choose between two royalty options for each of your eBooks: the 35% royalty option and the 70% royalty option. -If you select the 35% royalty option, your royalty will be 35% of your list price without VAT for each unit sol…

Yep, those are numbers. We can agree that none of that money should be owed to Apple, right?

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#155

Post by madsbuch »

musicale wrote: post #39
vorpalhex wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple didn't help deliver my ebook or podcast. They don't deserve 30% of that.

> Apple didn't help deliver my ebook or podcast How true. Well, except for: - designing and manufacturing the hardware - marketing and selling the hardware - creating and promoting the Books app - popularizing podcasts with the iPod - creating and promoting the Podcasts app etc. > They don't deserve 30% of that. This illustrates my point: the core dispute is over platform fees charged by the App Store.

yeah, and the farmer made sure the consumer was alive, hence they should also receive 30%.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#156

Post by Dylan16807 »

smoldesu wrote: post #96
newtritious wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The working conditions are not horrifying. That’s the misinformation. The suicide rate at Foxconn when the suicide nets were installed was lower than the average at US colleges. Everything about this story is just sensationalism.

The horrifying working conditions are more of a reference to the children and political prisoners of China who are forced to work in factories for Apple suppliers.

...so a completely separate accusation from the suicide nets this subthread is about?

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#157

Post by dmitriid »

simondotau wrote: post #111
smoldesu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I understand it, 30% pays for all of the frameworks Apple develops that is available to you when you fire up Xcode, as well as everything involved with running the store, and they take their cut when you post on their store and sell stuff. Xcode is free, though. Apple 'takes their cut' when you pay $99/year to be a registered Apple developer. If that's not enough, then maybe they need to review the checkbook aga…

> Xcode is free, though. Unreal Engine is "free" too. Except it isn't. Neither Unreal Engine nor Apple's developer frameworks (shipped alongside Xcode) are public domain or copyleft. They're both proprietary code available under a license that permits certain usages, disallows certain usages, is royalty free under some conditions, and requires payment under other conditions. > Apple 'takes their cut' when That's not…

> Neither Unreal Engine nor Apple's developer frameworks (shipped alongside Xcode) are public domain or copyleft.

You're confusing free with libre. Apple's software and Unreal are free as in "free beer".

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#158

Post by simondotau »

dmitriid wrote: post #157
simondotau wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Xcode is free, though. Unreal Engine is "free" too. Except it isn't. Neither Unreal Engine nor Apple's developer frameworks (shipped alongside Xcode) are public domain or copyleft. They're both proprietary code available under a license that permits certain usages, disallows certain usages, is royalty free under some conditions, and requires payment under other conditions. > Apple 'takes their cut' when That's not…

> Neither Unreal Engine nor Apple's developer frameworks (shipped alongside Xcode) are public domain or copyleft. You're confusing free with libre. Apple's software and Unreal are free as in "free beer".

> You're confusing free with libre.

I'm not confusing them. The fact that they are not libre is precisely the point I was making. They are both proprietary intellectual property and encumber the person using them with financial obligations under some conditions.

> Apple's software and Unreal are free as in "free beer".

No, they are not. They're free as in "free beer when consumed on our premises, max five per customer, and if you sell our free beer to someone else we'll take some of that revenue thank you very much".

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#159

Post by dmitriid »

simondotau wrote: post #158
dmitriid wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neither Unreal Engine nor Apple's developer frameworks (shipped alongside Xcode) are public domain or copyleft. You're confusing free with libre. Apple's software and Unreal are free as in "free beer".

> You're confusing free with libre. I'm not confusing them. The fact that they are not libre is precisely the point I was making. They are both proprietary intellectual property and encumber the person using them with financial obligations under some conditions. > Apple's software and Unreal are free as in "free beer". No, they are not. They're free as in "free beer when consumed on our premises, max five per custome…

The comment you were replying to wasn't talking about free as in speech. They were talking about free as in beer. And the whole thread talks about money and cost. Not their source code availability.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#160

Post by simondotau »

dmitriid wrote: post #159
simondotau wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're confusing free with libre. I'm not confusing them. The fact that they are not libre is precisely the point I was making. They are both proprietary intellectual property and encumber the person using them with financial obligations under some conditions. > Apple's software and Unreal are free as in "free beer". No, they are not. They're free as in "free beer when consumed on our premises, max five per custome…

The comment you were replying to wasn't talking about free as in speech. They were talking about free as in beer. And the whole thread talks about money and cost . Not their source code availability.

> They were talking about free as in beer.

Right, and my point is that it's not free as in beer.

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