Herb Sutter, who also works for Microsoft and has dedicated his entire life to advancing C++, may be really sad right now.
He knows it is just hot air.
He has been at Microsoft forever. He really knows hot air.
It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
461–470 of 929 posts
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#462Earlier quoted context omitted.
RITF? Research Institute of Tropical Forestry? Rat Intestinal Trefoil Factor?
RITF: Rust Is The F____
Rust Is The what?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Rust Is The Fuck doesn't parse. Did he mean RITFS, i.e. "Rust Is The Fucking Shit"? He probably didn't mean RITFBAEL, i.e. "Rust Is The Fucking Shit".
What are we hiding here?
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
No Rust Evangelist is out there thinking, "Hm, how do I put C/C++ developers out of business today"
I see you do not have much contact with Rust evangelists.
I think they're thinking "how do we get those C++ businesses to switch to Rust" rather than "how do I bankrupt them".
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If by "slip through", you mean "warns you about by default", then yes it lets it slip through. My bad. I should have been more modern. Try this one: #include #include #include int main() { std::string s = "Hellooooooooooooooo "; std::string_view sv {s + "World\n"}; // {now even more modern and warning free} std::cout
In other words, not a problem.
Except for the use-after-free?
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#465Casey Muratori's opinion on Rust: https://twitter.com/cmuratori/status/1367627549816152064?lan...
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#466When people use "C/C++" as a single language I usually know right away don't know much about C++. The distance between C and modern idiomatic C++ is many times larger than the distance between C++ and Rust. C++ looks like an ancient juvenile dialect of Rust compared to C and C++ looking almost nothing alike. You can write shit C++ that looks like C and breaks like C or you can write good C++ instead and end up with l…
Yes. Use of the "C/C++" construction is a marker for one or more of ignorance, dishonesty, or laziness. Usually it doesn't matter which: into the round file it goes.
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, let’s ignore the quite literally millions of examples of prior art for memory bugs in C/C++ programs because you believe you’ve managed to build a single-threaded CLI calculator that doesn’t have any. I know how to call `strcpy` safely. Are we clear to put that back into the Linux kernel then?
Notice that in my first post, I said to use Rust where practical. I never said that everyone should use C. I'm only claiming that I personally can do just as well in C as I could do in Rust, and that I prefer to work in C, so I might as well. Break my `bc`.
I honestly don't understand the point of your post then. Are you looking for a pat on the back?
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#468No post body was provided.
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
In what world is C++ harder to learn than Rust?
This world - the one you exist in right now. I say that as someone that wrote C++ for 10 years before moving to Rust. Rust was by far easier. That said - that’s an extremely biased statement and I recognize that. I think it was largely the compiler that helped make it easier.
I'd argue that your parent is right. In the superficial sense, of learn the syntax and can spit out code.
That said code in C++ would just vomit cryptic messages about templates and SEGFAULT nearly all the time.
What I'm trying to say skill floor - minimum skill/time needed to learn something to do it however in Rust is higher than C++. Although not in the sense of you must be this smart to enter, but you need this much time to learn it. If I can learn it, and I'm a mediocre programmer it's not an issue of skill.
That said skill ceiling - skill needed to do it efficiently and without error is much higher in C++ than in Rust.
Re: It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
I still disagree that it's awful.
The argument you are missing: Your position is bespoke and incompatible. You don't use idioms in your C code. You use idiolect. Thus, you exist in your own universe and are a party of one. And the clue was something you might not expect... I programmed C++ for five years, and C for over ten years before that. I don't know rust, but I followed this discussion with great interest. One of the topics that came up several…
It's not lost on me at all.
I prefer to finish software. [1] I get it to where it needs to be and put it in maintenance mode.
I don't accept outside contributions. [2]
I prefer to work alone to keep the scope of my software manageable and to reduce communication overhead. And to avoid working with people. People are too complicated.
I obsessively document my software. [3]
I comment all of my code. I wrote design documents and requirements lists. I write documents about the source code, its concepts, and how to understand and read it. I turn my code into something that can be studied and used far into the future.
Most programmers are not like Donald Knuth. But there are a few that are. I'm one of them.
Please let me be like that. Don't make me work like everyone else because I can't; I've tried.
I'm fine if you all want to use Rust. I even said to use it by default in my first post.
You all seem unhappy that I do not want to use Rust. I don't get why.
I'm defending my position because it appears you all think it's not acceptable. You're wrong.
[1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2019/11/finishing-software/
[2]: https://git.yzena.com/Yzena/Yc#open-source-not-open-contribu...
[3]: https://git.yzena.com/gavin/bc/src/branch/master/manuals/dev...