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Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

arstechnica.com

131–140 of 208 posts

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... with a $700+ Mac purchased from Apple, and usually a $99/yr subscription purchased from Apple, plus a network connection to Apple's servers to obtain code signing permission, which must be periodically refreshed or your code will stop running, to ensure you are never independent of Apple's ongoing approval.

Far from “impossible”, which is what GP asserted.

"impossible to install native code on the device you ostensibly own without Apple's ongoing permission" is what I asserted, which is exactly correct.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "core problem" isn't Apple's rate - they're free to charge whatever they want. The real issue is that the App Store has no competition, so Apple could charge 90% and developers would have no choice but to abide or abandon the platform.

Your point of view here will depend somewhat on your level of success. In the current model, the barrier to entry is pretty low. $99 gets you xcode, plus you need done hardware. Once you've made something you need to reach a market. A good market place (like a regular super market) brings together suppliers and customers. That market has costs. One model for costs is to charge each app the same amount. Say, for examp…

> In the current model, the barrier to entry is pretty low. $99 gets you xcode, plus you need done hardware.

Hundreds of dollars in apple hardware and software compared to zero dollars for MSVC community, zero dollars for android developer studio, zero dollars for linux toolchain or whatever.

>Once you've made something you need to reach a market. A good market place (like a regular super market) brings together suppliers and customers. That market has costs.

The cost of hosting the app store is essentially the cost of hosting a web service that lets you download and buy programs. The developers could easily host their own app store as a web page if iOS just facilitated running programs downloaded from the internet or loaded externally. Apple has built themselves a dam upstream and is charging everyone downstream for water-rights-as-a-service.

>One model for costs is to charge each app the same amount. Say, for example $5000 per app submission. Lots of successful suppliers would like this model because it raises the bar for completion, and means they pay less money.

>Another model is free-to-enter, but takes a cut of the sales. Successful products end up paying much much more than stuff no-one wants.

The only fair model here is the one where 100% of apple's income comes from hardware sales alone. That is the only situation where you don't set up the user to be exploited by erecting these walls around what they can and cannot run on their own hardware.

> If you develop for iOS you know the rules.

They know the rules, and they know the rules are bullshit. What do you want them to do, throw their hands in the air and say "welp, them's the rules, I guess we can should never try to use our leverage or negotiate better rules cause that's just how it is I guess."

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Code signing identity >Please refer to the Apple documentation on how to get a code signing identity and certificates. You can check that you have a code signing identity correctly installed by running the following command. It has a secure chain of trust in the sense that the machine is secured against user control. Face, meet boot.

Ok? Doesn’t change what I wrote. You can install the cert and profile in a few minutes.

modeless: it's impossible to install native code on the device you ostensibly own without Apple's ongoing permission.

fingerlocks: here, just run these two easy commands to ask apple for their ongoing permission!

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far from “impossible”, which is what GP asserted.

"impossible to install native code on the device you ostensibly own without Apple's ongoing permission" is what I asserted, which is exactly correct.

Ha, was that a stealth edit? Fine, I’ll yield. You can have this win.

But really side loading is not as difficult as you’re making it out to be. The biggest hurdle for most is access to Mac, but renting a cloud instance an option too.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#135
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can install whatever you want on an iPhone if you’re willing to compile it yourself with one or two shell commands. You do need access to a Mac. Contrary to popular belief, you can even install a non-safari browser: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/i...

And pay for an apple developer license.

Technically, that isn’t necessary. You ‘only’ will have to redeploy your apps every two weeks or so with a fresh temporary certificate.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"impossible to install native code on the device you ostensibly own without Apple's ongoing permission" is what I asserted, which is exactly correct.

Ha, was that a stealth edit? Fine, I’ll yield. You can have this win. But really side loading is not as difficult as you’re making it out to be. The biggest hurdle for most is access to Mac, but renting a cloud instance an option too.

It's not about difficulty, like the number of mouse clicks or something. It's about who has ultimate control over your device. And with control comes the ability to extract rent.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point of view here will depend somewhat on your level of success. In the current model, the barrier to entry is pretty low. $99 gets you xcode, plus you need done hardware. Once you've made something you need to reach a market. A good market place (like a regular super market) brings together suppliers and customers. That market has costs. One model for costs is to charge each app the same amount. Say, for examp…

> In the current model, the barrier to entry is pretty low. $99 gets you xcode, plus you need done hardware. Hundreds of dollars in apple hardware and software compared to zero dollars for MSVC community, zero dollars for android developer studio, zero dollars for linux toolchain or whatever. >Once you've made something you need to reach a market. A good market place (like a regular super market) brings together supp…

> Hundreds of dollars in apple hardware and software compared to zero dollars for MSVC community, zero dollars for android developer studio, zero dollars for linux toolchain or whatever

Apple’s software is free, and you need more than zero dollars for the hardware to run Android Developer Studio.

Also, on both platforms you may need a few (or more than a few) phones and tablets for testing (you may be able to test on a simulator, but that doesn’t guarantee things work on the real hardware, doesn’t give you a good idea about performance, and certainly is not a good option for apps that use on-board sensors such as accelerometers)

In the end, I think the difference in cost is between the cost of a PC and that of a Mac, so ballpark $500 in both cases, the phones to test on may cost more.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok? Doesn’t change what I wrote. You can install the cert and profile in a few minutes.

modeless: it's impossible to install native code on the device you ostensibly own without Apple's ongoing permission. fingerlocks: here, just run these two easy commands to ask apple for their ongoing permission!

My mistake. I thought “asking for ongoing permission” means signing up for free dev account with a throwaway email.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, was that a stealth edit? Fine, I’ll yield. You can have this win. But really side loading is not as difficult as you’re making it out to be. The biggest hurdle for most is access to Mac, but renting a cloud instance an option too.

It's not about difficulty, like the number of mouse clicks or something. It's about who has ultimate control over your device. And with control comes the ability to extract rent.

Then you would agree it’s fair to rephrase your original post as “It’s quite possible to install native code on the device you ostensibly own unless you want ultimate device control”?

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Steve Jobs would be morally above doing something like this? His personal history is full of stuff like this.

This claim is well supported by the numerous emails from court cases that have become public recently.

He denied paternity of his child for decades. We've known what kind of person he is for a long time, people just choose to ignore what they don't like.
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