Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 76 posts

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#21

Post by MonkeyMalarky »

JadeNB wrote: post #9
liminalsunset wrote: post #5

We've had this kind of system on the public buses here in Vancouver,BC Canada for quite a few years now. There are cameras and microphones, as well as stickers placed around the bus indicating their presence. Interestingly, they have not been installed yet on the newest section of subway, the "Canada Line", which has speaker phones for calling train control but probably do not activate unless someone presses the butt…

> We've had this kind of system on the public buses here in Vancouver,BC Canada for quite a few years now. There are cameras and microphones, as well as stickers placed around the bus indicating their presence. When I lived in Chicago (until 2004), I remember seeing signs warning that all activity on the bus might be audio- or video-recorded. I don't know whether they actually did it, but certainly they were ready to…

I remember busses having not-at-all inconspicuous cameras a decade ago. Now the new metro cars where I live have two-way camera + screen combinations by the doors instead of the old emergency intercoms.

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#22

Post by vikingerik »

ForrestN wrote: post #14

I'm curious what the (presumably delusional) for case for this is. Like, why would anyone think this would even be useful? Is it to combat crime? It says something vague in the article about "rider safety" but I don't really get that. What sort of incident would require hearing conversations between riders? Do they want this so that if one person verbally harasses another rider they can prove it? It just seems like t…

It's cover-your-ass blame-avoidance, like most things that public entities do. It's the preemptive answer to "why didn't you stop this bad behavior", so they can be seen to have taken some measure against it. Any resulting misuse is out of scope.

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#23

Post by unixbane »

ForrestN wrote: post #14

I'm curious what the (presumably delusional) for case for this is. Like, why would anyone think this would even be useful? Is it to combat crime? It says something vague in the article about "rider safety" but I don't really get that. What sort of incident would require hearing conversations between riders? Do they want this so that if one person verbally harasses another rider they can prove it? It just seems like t…

[flagged]

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#24

Post by lotsofpulp »

vikingerik wrote: post #22
ForrestN wrote: post #14

I'm curious what the (presumably delusional) for case for this is. Like, why would anyone think this would even be useful? Is it to combat crime? It says something vague in the article about "rider safety" but I don't really get that. What sort of incident would require hearing conversations between riders? Do they want this so that if one person verbally harasses another rider they can prove it? It just seems like t…

It's cover-your-ass blame-avoidance, like most things that public entities do. It's the preemptive answer to "why didn't you stop this bad behavior", so they can be seen to have taken some measure against it. Any resulting misuse is out of scope.

I do not see it as any different than individuals doing cover your ass blame avoidance too. See home cameras, dash camera, bicycle helmet cameras, etc.

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#25

Post by SilasX »

ForrestN wrote: post #14

I'm curious what the (presumably delusional) for case for this is. Like, why would anyone think this would even be useful? Is it to combat crime? It says something vague in the article about "rider safety" but I don't really get that. What sort of incident would require hearing conversations between riders? Do they want this so that if one person verbally harasses another rider they can prove it? It just seems like t…

I agree that the costs far outweigh the benefits here, but there’s clearly a legitimate use. If you’ll remember the Bernie Goetz case, there was a lot of debate about out, and legal significance to, what the kids said before Goetz started shooting.

I agree that the occasional significance of some conversations does not justify the constant widespread surveillance, but it’s a bit much to say that this couldn’t possibly be useful.

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#26

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #24
vikingerik wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cover-your-ass blame-avoidance, like most things that public entities do. It's the preemptive answer to "why didn't you stop this bad behavior", so they can be seen to have taken some measure against it. Any resulting misuse is out of scope.

I do not see it as any different than individuals doing cover your ass blame avoidance too. See home cameras, dash camera, bicycle helmet cameras, etc.

[deleted]

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#27

Post by Lammy »

ForrestN wrote: post #14

I'm curious what the (presumably delusional) for case for this is. Like, why would anyone think this would even be useful? Is it to combat crime? It says something vague in the article about "rider safety" but I don't really get that. What sort of incident would require hearing conversations between riders? Do they want this so that if one person verbally harasses another rider they can prove it? It just seems like t…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Information_Awareness never went away.

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#28

Post by dzink »

I would argue right to privacy until riding enough public transport and hitting enough incidents that make you wish someone was watching.

Some incidents: 1. A man as red as a tomato with anger yelling at the top of his lungs that he was going to kill a woman and following her out the door at Chicago’s blue line. 2. A woman begging with a toddler-aged child that was constantly drowsy / appeared sedated on a line multiple days, and weeks in a row. 3. The slashing of Nia’s throat in the Bay Area BART.

Eventually we stopped riding public transport, even if it was cheaper or more convenient/fun for the kids, because of fear of traumatizing incidents with little ones present. Its possible that the awareness of possibility of being recorded makes people behave better than they normally would. It’s also possible that public safety is better ensured if they know common abusers and somewhat reduce the abuse.

Re: Public buses across country adding microphones to record conversations (2012)

#29

Post by throwaway743 »

dzink wrote: post #28

I would argue right to privacy until riding enough public transport and hitting enough incidents that make you wish someone was watching. Some incidents: 1. A man as red as a tomato with anger yelling at the top of his lungs that he was going to kill a woman and following her out the door at Chicago’s blue line. 2. A woman begging with a toddler-aged child that was constantly drowsy / appeared sedated on a line multi…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

Pros and cons as always. It can be used for good, but it will also eventually be abused.

Personally feel that the cons outweigh the pros in the case of surveillance.

Post reply on HN