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Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#61

Post by dkonofalski »

saurik wrote: post #3

I work on DMCA exemption issues every few years due to my involvement with iOS jailbreaking and pushing back on companies like Apple, and the App Association would always be there seemingly trying to throw their all into preventing any DMCA exemptions or painting jailbreaking in a negative light... only, to me, the really interesting is always that their arguments are so low quality . In one case they argued people p…

I just wanted to say thanks for all your work on Cydia. I feel like we're in the presence of royalty here. If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have gotten so much use out of my devices and gotten interested in them to the level I am. Hats off.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#62

Post by saurik »

musicale wrote: post #26
smoldesu wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "core problem" isn't Apple's rate - they're free to charge whatever they want. The real issue is that the App Store has no competition, so Apple could charge 90% and developers would have no choice but to abide or abandon the platform.

The evidence on the Android side doesn't seem to support this line of reasoning. There are multiple app stores on Android (including Amazon's), and sideloading is permitted, yet there is still a dispute over the platform fee rate that Google is charging for Google Play. At the end of the day, it's a dispute over money, and specifically the platform commission rate: developers want a bigger cut of the retail app price…

The arguments on Android are sometimes even simpler to make (which I appreciate might not be intuitive at all), as there is a space where there SHOULD be competition and clearly CAN BE competition and yet there are arguments being made that Google is going out of their way to stifle this competition regardless, by such techniques as limiting the functionality of third-party markets (a big one was preventing them from supporting automatic upgrades), or their included anti-virus software flagging alternative markets (which reminds me that I haven't caught up on the Epic lawsuit against Google recently, and really really should).

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#63

Post by smoldesu »

atonse wrote: post #60
smoldesu wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. They're currently valued at over a trillion dollars, and the ones responsible for the suicide nets/child labor/political prisoner labor is their suppliers, not Apple. Crisis averted, right? Sources: - https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/apple-sends-tim-cook-t... - https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l... - https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-...

Your best source on the suicide nets is from 11 years ago?

The parent was claiming that the suicide nets are 'misinformation'. Apple themselves admit to suggesting the use of nets to avoid factory suicides at Foxconn plants - that link serves purely to dispel the idea that it's misinformation.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#64

Post by echelon »

HeavenBanned wrote: post #55
echelon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Apple is 50% of the US smartphone market, and what this means in factual terms is that they're the gateway to computing, communication, banking, and more for these folks. - Apple doesn't allow side loading of apps. You have to go through their store with their rules. - You have to pay Apple 15% of all commerce originated on your idea or platform. - You have to integrate with Apple login and Apple payments, which re…

- On the flip side, Android has _88%_ of the global market share. Arguably (and quite clearly) the bigger gateway. By a country mile. - What average user side loads apps? That would be like asking to sideload apps on your microwave -- it's just impractical and not the commonplace behavior. I understand this is HN, but still. Sideloading apps is a minor complaint for a minority: Google report recently showed 0.06 of u…

> Android has _88%_ of the global market share.

We're talking about America and how the DOJ needs to disrupt domestic corporate abuses.

> What average user side loads apps?

Kind of my point. Google makes it scary. Apple prevents it outright. In reality, everything should be distributed over the web.

> Both Apple AND Google have to pay 15% for all commerce originated

No they do not. They pay peanuts to maintain the biggest and most profitable walled gardens in the world. Adding little to the world while taxing the up and coming innovators.

> Apple is doing what Amazon did/does best

Amazon deserves the same treatment.

> could lead to security bedlam if improperly executed

This describes everything ever. Software isn't too dangerous to use.

> you're more than welcome to use Firefox and Chrome

Reskinned Safari. Woefully out of date with standards.

> Having a partnership with Apple is a good thing. You'll be associated with quality build and security.

I'll get billed margins that I need to pay my employees. I just want to write software, not pay the mafia boss that built an empire.

> you're developing for their phone

It's not their phone anymore - it's society's gateway to the Internet and ecommerce. The DOJ needs to catch up. Break up Apple and Google or put them into straightjackets.

> bring up Nintendo here

A kid toy, a sliver of the economy, replete with dozens of alternatives. You don't do banking, physical commerce, architectural design, or meet strangers to fuck with your Wii.

> I don't want to step into a jungle.

The world doesn't need kid gloves. Every time you step into a car you face death.

It's time to make competition from the bottom healthy again.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#65

Post by Retric »

smoldesu wrote: post #63
atonse wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your best source on the suicide nets is from 11 years ago?

The parent was claiming that the suicide nets are 'misinformation'. Apple themselves admit to suggesting the use of nets to avoid factory suicides at Foxconn plants - that link serves purely to dispel the idea that it's misinformation.

Yet, your statement makes it clear that Apple didn’t install nets at Foxconn’s factory. So the original statement was objectively false as was the implication it was needed when US collages have higher suicide rates.

Apple doesn’t have real control over Foxconn any more than Microsoft, Sony, Google, Nintendo, etc who all use them, but people where competing for those jobs.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#66

Post by treeman79 »

atonse wrote: post #60
smoldesu wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. They're currently valued at over a trillion dollars, and the ones responsible for the suicide nets/child labor/political prisoner labor is their suppliers, not Apple. Crisis averted, right? Sources: - https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/apple-sends-tim-cook-t... - https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l... - https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-...

Your best source on the suicide nets is from 11 years ago?

They got really serious about ending issues after bad publicity.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#67

Post by smoldesu »

Retric wrote: post #65
smoldesu wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent was claiming that the suicide nets are 'misinformation'. Apple themselves admit to suggesting the use of nets to avoid factory suicides at Foxconn plants - that link serves purely to dispel the idea that it's misinformation.

Yet, your statement makes it clear that Apple didn’t install nets at Foxconn’s factory. So the original statement was objectively false as was the implication it was needed when US collages have higher suicide rates. Apple doesn’t have real control over Foxconn any more than Microsoft, Sony, Google, Nintendo, etc who all use them, but people where competing for those jobs.

Right. It's "wrong" in the sense that Apple pays another company to deal with horrifying working conditions in their absence.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#68

Post by waboremo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30
pessimizer wrote: post #11

Next you'll tell me that the top funder of disease advocacy groups is big pharma, and that the top funders of YIMBY groups are huge property owners.

> Next you'll tell me that the top funder of disease advocacy groups is big pharma, and that the top funders of YIMBY groups are huge property owners This is called coalition building. It's powerful if done openly. There is a natural alliance between small app developers and the App Store. That Apple was underhanded in its support is unsavory. But a legitimate, rational small-developer lobby wouldn't rule out working…

Yes they would work with the gatekeepers. But they would absolutely not take funding from the gatekeepers, that's absurd.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#69

Post by kbenson »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30
pessimizer wrote: post #11

Next you'll tell me that the top funder of disease advocacy groups is big pharma, and that the top funders of YIMBY groups are huge property owners.

> Next you'll tell me that the top funder of disease advocacy groups is big pharma, and that the top funders of YIMBY groups are huge property owners This is called coalition building. It's powerful if done openly. There is a natural alliance between small app developers and the App Store. That Apple was underhanded in its support is unsavory. But a legitimate, rational small-developer lobby wouldn't rule out working…

Unless you cap the allowed funding from large business to be some fraction of the combined funding from small business, all you're doing as a group purporting to support small business is signing up to either become a talking head for large business or a painful reckoning later when they find a substantial portion of their projecting funding disappeared, possibly leaving them insolvent based on current cash outflow.

Maybe, if they're extremely lucky and prescient, they can quickly leverage that money into increased exposure and other funding sources so they can reduce what they take from big business, whether relatively or in total.

It's just like a small business signing one account that is worth multiple of all the other accounts put together. Either you use that money to diversify as soon as you can or you're just a subsidiary in all but name.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#70

Post by waboremo »

atonse wrote: post #60
smoldesu wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. They're currently valued at over a trillion dollars, and the ones responsible for the suicide nets/child labor/political prisoner labor is their suppliers, not Apple. Crisis averted, right? Sources: - https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/apple-sends-tim-cook-t... - https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l... - https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-...

Your best source on the suicide nets is from 11 years ago?

You can read more about it in "Dying for an iPhone: Apple, Foxconn, and The Lives of China's Workers" by Jenny Chan, Mark Selden, and Ngai Pun. Published in 2020.
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