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Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

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Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#51
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly--as someone at the front line of all of this stuff--none of these DMCA related arguments have much "practical" importance in the medium-to-long term :/. (This is not at all to say it is a waste of time or anything: the right to examine products and discuss what you learn is really really important and is the basis of security research, so these lawsuits are extremely important and this DMCA law--which likely…

The real "practical" changes are thereby going to have to come from proactive regulation that prohibits certain forms of protection or corporate behavior Indeed. Of course, trying to regulate crypto will bring everyone against (individual) privacy and freedom out in opposition, and forcing companies to not tie functionality to their private keys / force them to make public those keys would also make you an enemy of t…

> Of course, trying to regulate crypto will bring everyone against (individual) privacy and freedom out in opposition, and forcing companies to not tie functionality to their private keys / force them to make public those keys would also make you an enemy of the "security" industry.

This seems easy to solve. Just mandate that the end-user/purchaser of the hardware should have the same level of control over the code execution as the manufacturer does after the sale. Whatever the manufacturer can do to your own unit after it's in your posession, you should be able to do as well.

No need to get into restricting crypto. After the aforementioned regulations are passed, it will be up to the companies to figure out how to implement them.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple didn't help deliver my ebook or podcast. They don't deserve 30% of that.

> Apple didn't help deliver my ebook or podcast How true. Well, except for: - designing and manufacturing the hardware - marketing and selling the hardware - creating and promoting the Books app - popularizing podcasts with the iPod - creating and promoting the Podcasts app etc. > They don't deserve 30% of that. This illustrates my point: the core dispute is over platform fees charged by the App Store.

Agreed. I think people commonly mistake simplicity for ease. Apple spends a lot of engineering budget making products simple enough for the masses.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#54

Next you'll tell me that the top funder of disease advocacy groups is big pharma, and that the top funders of YIMBY groups are huge property owners.

> Next you'll tell me that the top funder of disease advocacy groups is big pharma, and that the top funders of YIMBY groups are huge property owners This is called coalition building. It's powerful if done openly. There is a natural alliance between small app developers and the App Store. That Apple was underhanded in its support is unsavory. But a legitimate, rational small-developer lobby wouldn't rule out working…

Why would small developers work to prop up a giant who already has so much power imbalance wrt them that they pretty much cannot do anything if it decides to, say, yank their app from the store for uncertain reasons?

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#55
post #28

If the core issue is the cut, why don’t they target Google/Android instead since there are so many more people with Android phones? Why pick on Apple?

- Apple is 50% of the US smartphone market, and what this means in factual terms is that they're the gateway to computing, communication, banking, and more for these folks. - Apple doesn't allow side loading of apps. You have to go through their store with their rules. - You have to pay Apple 15% of all commerce originated on your idea or platform. - You have to integrate with Apple login and Apple payments, which re…

- On the flip side, Android has _88%_ of the global market share. Arguably (and quite clearly) the bigger gateway. By a country mile.

- What average user side loads apps? That would be like asking to sideload apps on your microwave -- it's just impractical and not the commonplace behavior. I understand this is HN, but still. Sideloading apps is a minor complaint for a minority: Google report recently showed 0.06 of users sideload apps, globally. Paltry.

- Both Apple AND Google have to pay 15% for all commerce originated on the idea or platform at the end of the day.

- If your idea of maximizing "relationship" involves maximizing the companies profits first, then I disagree with the premise. Having a partnership with Apple is a good thing. You'll be associated with quality build and security. If you want to go your own way, then do what, say, Patreon does or OnlyFans does and do your own thing. No need to have Apple or Google for that matter hold you back.

- If you don't like the Apple browser (Safari) you're more than welcome to use Firefox and Chrome if you'd like and make adjustments to make it the default browser.

- Apple is doing what Amazon did/does best...is this so bad for every business as a whole? If we can all do better, why not? This will lift up profits for _everyone_.

- "Deploying at your own cadence" could lead to security bedlam if improperly executed. Not to mention the deployment monitoring on Google/Android is quite outdated.

- I'm sorry, but you're developing for their phone. It's not public. It's not a non-profit. It's like developing for Nintendo Switch -- of course you have to follow their development guidelines, procedures and recommendations to reach the level of quality they need. It's a two-way street. You're entering into their territory. You're brash for assuming you can just walk in and do whatever you want.

- Of course they should be able to have that right especially if malevelont actors are in play, which they are en masse and global at times. They need this right to protect users.

- Again, I bring up Nintendo here, but they forced developers to develop on the Wii and Switch using their odd hardware and software. Was that a sin? I think no. Odd hardware is only odd and cumbersome if you can't handle the technological "challenge." Which some like Capcom were able to handle with ease.

- They should be allowed to expand on their own OS. Claiming they can't because it "competes" with other apps is just not true, frankly. I think of the recent medications app. Does what most other junk medication apps do in the app store but 100X. Now I don't have to pay $19.99 for a "good" app (which frankly, sucks) I can just use the app Apple has.

- Let them go into the 88% Android ecosystem. Apple is for those of us users who want it to work, cleanly without headache. If it requires a "Tax" and pain for up-and-comer-developers so be it. If you want a perfect product, expect the imperfect to get weeded out.

I only want the cream of the crop in the app store, and I'm an average user. I don't want spyware/malware/bloatware and I want that weeded out for me beforehand. I don't want to step into a jungle. I want order and I want quality. That's just how I see it.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#56
post #49

fascinating read. from what I've gathered its a story about a three-hundred fifty billion dollar international company that employs child labor and once had to install suicide nets on their factory buildings. the story indicates they've also decided the counterintelligence level data they collect from their walled garden of proprietary-only apps is entirely insufficient to thwart oncemore being pressed to acquiesce t…

>story about a three-hundred fifty billion dollar international company that employs child labor and once had to install suicide nets on their factory buildings.

Neither of those statements are true. Please refrain from making emotional arguments based on misinformation.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#57
post #49

fascinating read. from what I've gathered its a story about a three-hundred fifty billion dollar international company that employs child labor and once had to install suicide nets on their factory buildings. the story indicates they've also decided the counterintelligence level data they collect from their walled garden of proprietary-only apps is entirely insufficient to thwart oncemore being pressed to acquiesce t…

>story about a three-hundred fifty billion dollar international company that employs child labor and once had to install suicide nets on their factory buildings. Neither of those statements are true. Please refrain from making emotional arguments based on misinformation.

You're right. They're currently valued at over a trillion dollars, and the ones responsible for the suicide nets/child labor/political prisoner labor is their suppliers, not Apple. Crisis averted, right?

Sources:

- https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/apple-sends-tim-cook-t...

- https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l...

- https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-...

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#58

> One bill opposed by the App Association is the Open App Markets Act, which aimed to help app developers use alternative in-app payment systems and avoid Apple's standard cuts of 15 to 30 percent. The cut is a platform fee , and collecting it via the in-app payment system is mechanism , not policy. The core issue is Apple's rate: although it is usually comparable to rates on other game platforms (eShop, Google Play,…

Apple didn't help deliver my ebook or podcast. They don't deserve 30% of that.

They did. They hosted the files that people downloaded when they purchased the ebook or podcast and they created the mechanism by which people can find it, rate it, and pay for it.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I consider anything console manufacturers do to be an antipattern Perhaps. On the other hand, Nintendo is a beloved company and the Switch is an incredibly successful system with fantastic games. So the walled garden seems to have worked out reasonably well. I'm not sure why you're responding to my parent comment though, as it was descriptive and not prescriptive.

Gaming is different because you normally don't expect much freedom on the platform nor use it for anything other than entertainment.

This assumes all users have the same expectation. That would never hold water in a legal sense.

Re: Apple is top funder of lobby group that says it represents small developers

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>story about a three-hundred fifty billion dollar international company that employs child labor and once had to install suicide nets on their factory buildings. Neither of those statements are true. Please refrain from making emotional arguments based on misinformation.

You're right. They're currently valued at over a trillion dollars, and the ones responsible for the suicide nets/child labor/political prisoner labor is their suppliers, not Apple. Crisis averted, right? Sources: - https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/apple-sends-tim-cook-t... - https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l... - https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-...

Your best source on the suicide nets is from 11 years ago?
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