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‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

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Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#61

Post by chiefalchemist »

socialismisok wrote: post #6
aardvarkr wrote: post #2

Just goes to show what can happen when you get featured in a viral hit podcast. That’s a great outcome for him but I shudder to think about what it tells us about our judicial system.

Our justice system is pretty busted, to be honest. And it's end to end busted - we trust police too much and with too much power, we don't have enough public defenders to protect everyone, we have long backlogs of cases, court fees and fines can be unending even if you are innocent (to say nothing about civil asset forfeiture), people are goaded into plea deals for crimes they don't commit, our jury selection process…

Well stated. We have normialized - minor or not - human rights infractions. Yet have no shame in calling out others.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#62

Post by closewith »

oconnor663 wrote: post #40
indigodaddy wrote: post #19

When I finished the podcast I was not at all convinced of his innocence. For me was 50/50 or even 60/40 against innocence. Just my takeaway/opinion of course.. EDIT However, reading both of the AP News articles on this now, it does serve to sway me more toward his innocence. Crazy that the prosecutors withheld this at that time.. Par for the course unfortunately I guess. Seems as though the SA office is trying to do…

> For me was 50/50 or even 60/40 against innocence. Totally, but the standard for conviction is "beyond a reasonable doubt". By that standard, a 40% chance of innocence means "not guilty". I don't know whether the law has ever translated "reasonable doubt" into a specific percentage, but I have to imagine it's less than 10%?

It's obviously subjective, but a YouGov poll in the UK found that 47% of pelt required 99% accuracy or higher to be considered beyond reasonable doubt. Only 12% set the bar below 90%.

Source: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/1...

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#63

Post by jmkd »

warner25 wrote: post #59

I'm wondering if anyone here has real insight into the economics of his situation at this point. On one hand it seems like his life has been ruined by the state after spending 20+ years in prison, costing his family everything in legal fees, and forever being associated with this murder. I feel like anyone wrongfully convicted (or even just accused) should have some serious recourse but I suspect that there isn't any…

I don't have real insight but I have real hope that your sentiment comes true at least in part, and that Adnan is both exonerated and compensated appropriately. Listening to Serial from episode 1 you cannot ignore the fact that it wouldn't be compelling (or wouldn't have been researched or serialised) if the suspect's guilt was clear and unequivocal.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#64

Post by nostromo »

aardvarkr wrote: post #2

Just goes to show what can happen when you get featured in a viral hit podcast. That’s a great outcome for him but I shudder to think about what it tells us about our judicial system.

If you're worried primarily about wrongful convictions, don't forget that we only solve 50% of murders in the US.

Wrongful convictions are tragic, but the 50% of murderers that are free is also tragic.

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/07/poli...

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#65

Post by SECProto »

jmkd wrote: post #56
robga wrote: post #11

Serial was blowout success, but flawed in many ways. For me, chief amongst these is not updating the podcast with new (and potentially exculpatory) information as it came to light over the years. What really progressed the case was the Undisclosed podcast [0]. Rabia Chaudry, a childhood friend of Adnan and an attorney, first took Adnan's story to Sarah Koenig, who documented it in the Serial podcast. But in Undisclos…

Would Undisclosed have even covered the case were it not for Serial?

One of the hosts of Undisclosed is Rabia Chaudry, who was a childhood friend of Adnan Syed. So really what you are asking here, is whether Ms Chaudry would still have created a podcast without the success of Serial - which is an unanswerable question (but I'd guess yes).

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#67

Post by tunesmith »

legitster wrote: post #44
shishy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the suspects had threatened Lee, saying “he would make her (Ms. Lee) disappear. He would kill her,” according to the filing. > “Given the stunning lack of reliable evidence implicating Mr. Syed, coupled with increasing evidence pointing to other suspects, this unjust conviction cannot stand,” said Assistant Public Defender Erica Suter, Mr. Syed’s attorney and, Director of the Innocence Project Clinic. “Mr. S…

I would love to hear from an actual neutral legal party if that's actually the case. Adnan had a motive and a strong testimony against him from an accomplice who's story had checked out. Is it actually a big miss to not rule out every possible suspect? But on your broader point, I largely agree that anyone freed from unnecessarily long and potentially unjust prison sentences is a good thing.

Jay's story "checked out" because it matched the cell phone evidence and also the testimony of another witness. The problem was that the cell phone evidence was later proven to be completely misinterpreted, and the other witness's testimony apparently misremembered the day (it was something along the lines of her being in class at a certain key time). Without those, it sounds like there's nothing left for his story to rest on.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#68

Post by achr2 »

I believe Adnan is factually guilty. Undoubtedly there were significant procedural failures and biases that played into his conviction, and those are a black mark on the justice system. But today is a tragedy for Hae Min Lee's family. Adnan could very likely be a redeemable man who acted unfathomably during a crime of passion. But at present he is an unrepentant murderer. How very sad.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#69

Post by danso »

robga wrote: post #11

Serial was blowout success, but flawed in many ways. For me, chief amongst these is not updating the podcast with new (and potentially exculpatory) information as it came to light over the years. What really progressed the case was the Undisclosed podcast [0]. Rabia Chaudry, a childhood friend of Adnan and an attorney, first took Adnan's story to Sarah Koenig, who documented it in the Serial podcast. But in Undisclos…

I admire Chaudry but Undisclosed was just a little too much for me. Obviously, dismantling the faulty cell "ping" evidence was great work, but a lot of the content and theories seemed to veer into "throw everything but the kitchen sink at em" territory.

But obviously there was a post-Serial audience and hunger for that kind of focus. Serial may have been the catalyst that brought huge national attention to Adnan, but Rabia et al. deserve top credit for being faithful and persistent advocates all these years.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#70

Post by danso »

achr2 wrote: post #68

I believe Adnan is factually guilty. Undoubtedly there were significant procedural failures and biases that played into his conviction, and those are a black mark on the justice system. But today is a tragedy for Hae Min Lee's family. Adnan could very likely be a redeemable man who acted unfathomably during a crime of passion. But at present he is an unrepentant murderer. How very sad.

He is not "factually guilty". The cell tower ping evidence was basically all the "science" the state had against him, and it was the foundation for the constantly evolving and self-contradictory claims of the state's key witness, Jay Wilds.

I don't know what Jay's deal is (seems very implausible that he was the murderer), but with the cell tower pings being all but useless for tracking location, then Jay's stories are just circumstantial claims.

(again, it can't be emphasized enough how nonsensical and mutually contradictyory all of Jay's stories were over the years)

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