Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

711–720 of 738 posts

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#711

Post by mxuribe »

ryandrake wrote: post #136

One more vote for terrible audio mixes and one for actors who mumble their dialog. Whenever I watch movies with my wife, we constantly have to fiddle with the remote control. The loud parts (including explosions and music) are too loud for her, so we have to turn the volume down during those parts, but the dialog is too quiet and mumbly for me to hear, so we turn the volume up during those parts. We now just keep the…

> ...Whenever I watch movies...turn on subtitles--easy but shitty solution...

Yep, I've been doing this now for several years. I guess i got used to watching (and enjoying!) many films that are not in English, but 99.9% of the time its because of actors mumbling, or some background noise (in the film) not making it easy to discern what was stated.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#712

Post by acuozzo »

jononomo wrote: post #537

I have never understood surround sound: just mix the audio in mono and make sure that every word can be cleanly heard by my father who is 85 and uses a hearing aid. As an unintended side effect your movie will be more widely appreciated by every other demographic. The premise of surround sound is that it is extremely important to know the direction that the sound is coming from -- but when you sacrifice the audience'…

> just mix the audio in mono and make sure that every word can be cleanly heard by my father who is 85 and uses a hearing aid

Unfortunately, this would trash the theatrical mix. Dialogue would roar from the center channel with every other channel operating at a whisper.

The right solution is to produce two mixes: a stereo home mix and a surround theatrical one. Make the stereo home mix the default. Any *-phile is going to make sure the movie is using the right mix beforehand anyway.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#713

Post by Filligree »

presentation wrote: post #276
Filligree wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For foreign content (like Anime) I use dubs + subs (the subs are of the initial English translation before the dubs were done) because it gives 2 passes at any given line. I find it very interesting to see how they change things between the two and it sometimes paints a fuller picture. Anime is an interesting case, because — remember, a lot of these threads are about poor enunciation and mixing? — anime tends to be…

Also if you speak some Japanese and listen to the Japanese audio while reading the subs it makes for some interesting food for thought, often the translations aren’t exactly what the characters are actually saying so you get a feel for how the languages and cultures differ.

In all honesty, my first assumption would simply be 'poor translation'.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#715

Post by jononomo »

acuozzo wrote: post #712
jononomo wrote: post #537

I have never understood surround sound: just mix the audio in mono and make sure that every word can be cleanly heard by my father who is 85 and uses a hearing aid. As an unintended side effect your movie will be more widely appreciated by every other demographic. The premise of surround sound is that it is extremely important to know the direction that the sound is coming from -- but when you sacrifice the audience'…

> just mix the audio in mono and make sure that every word can be cleanly heard by my father who is 85 and uses a hearing aid Unfortunately, this would trash the theatrical mix. Dialogue would roar from the center channel with every other channel operating at a whisper. The right solution is to produce two mixes: a stereo home mix and a surround theatrical one. Make the stereo home mix the default. Any *-phile is goi…

There is zero need for surround sound -- the plot is infinitely more important than knowing which direction a sound came from. Surround sound is completely and utterly a waste in every respect.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#716

Post by SilasX »

crazygringo wrote: post #657
SilasX wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To the contrary, it is realistic -- no, you wouldn't understand them in real-life either. Yes, I absolutely would, because, in practice, people speak in a way that others can understand them, or else they have to quickly adapt. (If they’re not comprehensible, there will be a contextual reason why.) >Movie speakers aren't slurring anything, as any audio engineer could easily prove to you. That wasn’t what I was sayin…

I don't know what to tell you... but in real life people misunderstand each other all the time . And don't adjust. Listening to dialog in a movie theater is generally crystal clear in terms of audio engineering, coming from dedicated center speakers with very little audio artifacts due to the space. Directional sound waves are directional sound waves, and no there's nothing our ears are optimized for that isn't repro…

>I don't know what to tell you... but in real life people misunderstand each other all the time. And don't adjust.

Anyone who consistently speaks incomprehensibly and doesn't correct is soon cut off.

Mishearing does happen, but is the exception, and having repeats will take away from the presentation for little narrative benefit. Therefore, when putting it on the big screen, they present the interaction in a way that avoids blowing time to have characters repeat themselves.

So yes, in a sense (that you weren't arguing), you are correct: in real life, there will be more mishearings (and repeats). But IRL, you also don't normally have to carry on after not hearing correctly. To the extent that movies are accomplishing that, it is a departure from realism.

>Listening to dialog in a movie theater is generally crystal clear in terms of audio engineering,

As judged by the repeated complaints of numerous people, to the point that periodicals are covering it, no, it's not, it's really really not. Perhaps you hear things okay but most people don't.

>My point is that subtitles help people who have trouble understanding similar dialog in real life, or in bad acoustics.

But these are people that have no trouble in similar dialog in real life! Hence why this is being covered, and why people are upset. Did you notice the title? "Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions..." You must have missed the subtext that, "20-somethings are not a special class with hearing disabilities". If they can't hear it, you can dismiss it was "lol hard of hearing" or some exceptional case.

>When I watch a movie in a friend's living room with kids running around, we absolutely put on subtitles. Because it's a terrible audio environment.

But people are using subtitles when there aren't distractions, and they didn't need to do this 20 years ago. I just watched Seinfeld on Netflix, and the dialog clarity was thousands of times better than any more recent production. I turned off subtitles, which was unusual for me. How come it wasn't such a "terrible audio environment" back then?

Because sound engineering practices have regressed, and you shouldn't be rationalizing them.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#717

Post by acuozzo »

jononomo wrote: post #715
acuozzo wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just mix the audio in mono and make sure that every word can be cleanly heard by my father who is 85 and uses a hearing aid Unfortunately, this would trash the theatrical mix. Dialogue would roar from the center channel with every other channel operating at a whisper. The right solution is to produce two mixes: a stereo home mix and a surround theatrical one. Make the stereo home mix the default. Any *-phile is goi…

There is zero need for surround sound -- the plot is infinitely more important than knowing which direction a sound came from. Surround sound is completely and utterly a waste in every respect.

There is zero need for color -- the plot is infinitely more important than knowing the hair color of its actors. Color is completely and utterly a waste in every respect.

There is zero need for widescreen --

There is zero need for high definition --

There is zero need for stereo audio --

There is zero need for digital home video --

The plot is infinitely more important than any of the aforementioned gimmicks.

All we need is B&W+mono on RCA SelectaVision CEDs playing on 9" round CRT TVs. If the mains for the TV has a ground wire, then it's too new!

Hell, we can do one better: https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-d...

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#718

Post by d3ckard »

snowwrestler wrote: post #532
d3ckard wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You may notice that in movie theaters—the most focused and immersive watching experience there is—they don’t show captions except maybe when translating foreign language. Well, it just tells you come from the English speaking country. For the rest of us, subtitles in a movie theatre are among most normal things in the world.

I bet they don’t show subtitles when the film is in your native language.

You’re right - except I don’t think there are many countries where national movie industry can seriously compete with international (predominantly American). Therefore, subtitles are a standard for your movie going experience.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#719

Post by accidentalborg »

I land in a bit of a weird spot on this topic. Personally, I loathe using subtitles or CC because switching between trying to watch what's happening in the scene and quickly reading the text at the bottom of the screen over and over throughout a show or film leaves me feeling like I can't relax and enjoy it, even when I can hear what's happening just fine.

On the other hand, unfortunately, as many others have said - modern audio mixes almost force subtitles to be turned on, making it a 'necessary evil'.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#720

Post by Gravityloss »

boltzmann-brain wrote: post #470
iamacyborg wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dune sounds great on my 2.0 system at home (low mid-range receiver and ~$200 yamaha floorstanders). Sicario too, from the same director, I generally think he does a fantastic job with audio mixes. Strange that article doesn’t talk about the tripod noise from the ‘05 War of the Worlds. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jzY099ihULs

The '05 tripod noises are meant to sound like V1 bomb scare-sounds, which is originally made to sound like mythical Horns of Jericho: https://www.factmag.com/2016/10/09/sound-fear-room40-boss-la... Listen to the V1 bomb sound in the clip on that page - there's no surprise they're being referred to in following works of fiction.

V1 sound comes from the pulse jet engine that runs with a "batch mode" cycle, ie there's a valve at the front that opens and closes at something like 30 Hz.

The Stuka had the scare sound siren and it had a much higher pitch.

Post reply on HN