Earlier quoted context omitted.
Adding to that: do people use physical cards? (except older generation) I don't remember when I last saw a person not taping with phone or watch.
Lots of smaller stores have readers where either the tap or the chip is broken. I just went to one today and took out my card to insert the chip instead of using Google Pay.
Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers
471–480 of 484 posts
Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers
#472> However, there are a great many smaller businesses in the United States that still rely on being able to swipe the customer’s card. Who are these businesses? Seriously, stop issuing cards without chips and send new card readers to theses businesses. End of story. Is it because US businesses use deeply embedded card readers in custom POS machines that aren't modular? Everywhere I go in South America and Europe, busi…
I just got a replacement card from my bank. It still has no chip in it.
Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lots of smaller stores have readers where either the tap or the chip is broken. I just went to one today and took out my card to insert the chip instead of using Google Pay.
Wow it never happened to me, then the reader is broken no cards worked one time it was and by a pure chance I had cash (which I don't carry normally).
Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
"When Canada" I want to call out this country wide edict. I've seen this done in both the United States and Canada. I do not know your personal situation, but I'm fairly sure it wasn't across the entire country of Canada.
It sure was.
Based on my experience both the United States and Canada are usually moving financial tech through different regions and social groups in phases and at different paces.
I'm trying to think of specific examples occurring nation wide and credit card technology just doesn't register. Maybe the removal of the Canadian penny, or paper dollar?
Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sure was.
Except not everyone in Canada requires chip and pin, and the parent comment made it sound like there are no other options with credit cards across the entire country. Based on my experience both the United States and Canada are usually moving financial tech through different regions and social groups in phases and at different paces. I'm trying to think of specific examples occurring nation wide and credit card techn…
Yes, every card in Canada is chip and PIN except possibly some prepaid gift cards. The same is the case across Europe and Australia and has been for the better part of two decades now.
Speak not from whence you know not.
Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except not everyone in Canada requires chip and pin, and the parent comment made it sound like there are no other options with credit cards across the entire country. Based on my experience both the United States and Canada are usually moving financial tech through different regions and social groups in phases and at different paces. I'm trying to think of specific examples occurring nation wide and credit card techn…
The paper dollar was converted to a coin in the '90s and the two-dollar bill followed suit. Yes, every card in Canada is chip and PIN except possibly some prepaid gift cards. The same is the case across Europe and Australia and has been for the better part of two decades now. Speak not from whence you know not.
While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition, nor different options to use with the same card. Consider contactless-enabled card payments as an example (like the original post did).
The assertion that the United States is somehow behind Canada in payment technology because all credit card issuers do not issue cards with chip and PIN seems invalid to me. Additionally the surprise at not requiring signatures. Merchants have been accepting contact-less enabled card payments in the United States, requiring no signature, for quite awhile.
Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
When Canada moved to Chip and Pin there was no fanfare. Merchants started getting chip terminals as part of the regular replacement cycle, consumers started getting chip cards as part of that regular replacement cycle, and eventually the terminals started telling users to insert their card. Interac was the first mover because most people were already familiar with swipe and pin, so the move to chip and pin was a virt…
When I first moved from Canada to the US, before I got an American credit card, I used my Canadian card to tap as I was so used to doing. More than once, the clerk looked at me as though I were a wizard.
Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
The vast majority of terminals in the US use chip, but I doubt the US will ever require pin numbers for credit card purchases. It's just too inconvenient. Banks are willing to eat the tiny reversed transactions in exchange for making the payment flow more efficient.
I've heard this argument but I honestly don't understand it. This is the reality for making credit card purchases in Canada, having to remember PINs for credit cards is something I've never heard anybody complain about. Maybe it's because the prevalence of Interac already trained us to deal with PINs.
Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
The paper dollar was converted to a coin in the '90s and the two-dollar bill followed suit. Yes, every card in Canada is chip and PIN except possibly some prepaid gift cards. The same is the case across Europe and Australia and has been for the better part of two decades now. Speak not from whence you know not.
Exactly. Removal of some of the coinage and paper was nationwide. They are no longer legal tender. While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition, nor different options to use with the same card. Consider contactless-enabled card payments as an example (like the original post did). The assertion…
The $1 and the $2 notes stopped being issued in 1989 and 1996 respectively. They are not demonetized and you can still exchange such money at any bank in Canada, or the Bank of Canada, for its face value.
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/about-legal-tender/
>While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition
What the hell is this supposed to mean? EMV-enabled cards were rolled out as each bank got onboard, replacing cards at expiry with EMV-enabled ones. Eventually no further non-chip cards were issued.
After a while, the same thing happened for contactless as well.
>nor different options to use with the same card.
EMV supports multiple applets per card, so you can absolutely have a debit and a credit card in the same physical card, choosing which you want to use after you insert it into the reader. These are unusual, perhaps because most people seem to prefer separate cards.
>The assertion that the United States is somehow behind Canada in payment technology because all credit card issuers do not issue cards with chip and PIN seems invalid to me.
The United States isn't just behind Canada, it's behind Europe, Australia, and most of Asia, as well.
I can send money from one European country to another in a regulated maximum of 15 seconds 24/7/365 (look up "SCT INST"), but the Americans can't get it from one bank to another in the same country quicker than a day or two (or sometimes three, apparently). Never mind consumers trying to punch in someone's ABA routing and account numbers to pay them... lol nope, hence the mess of insecure third-party services like Zelle, CashApp, etc.
Skimmers aren't really a thing in Europe because everything is EMV, and I don't mean the abortion which is chip-and-signature (although that still proves possession of the original card).
>Additionally the surprise at not requiring signatures. Merchants have been accepting contact-less enabled card payments in the United States, requiring no signature, for quite awhile.
Again you speak from whence you know not. Google Pay and Apple Pay use a different CVM, referred to as CDCVM, for which there is no PIN as user authentication is handled by the device (hence the need for a fingerprint or face scan before they can be used). For small transactions plastic cards are permitted to perform contactless transactions without a PIN in most countries for convenience as the risk of fraud is low given the maximum cumulative cap of perhaps €50/$50, configurable by the issuer, before a PIN becomes required, which caps the bank's liability in case of theft (since the cardholder is not on the hook for it).
Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. Removal of some of the coinage and paper was nationwide. They are no longer legal tender. While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition, nor different options to use with the same card. Consider contactless-enabled card payments as an example (like the original post did). The assertion…
>They are no longer legal tender. The $1 and the $2 notes stopped being issued in 1989 and 1996 respectively. They are not demonetized and you can still exchange such money at any bank in Canada, or the Bank of Canada, for its face value. https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/about-legal-tender/ >While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it…
>The $1 and the $2 notes stopped being issued in 1989 and 1996 respectively. They are not demonetized and you can still exchange such money at any bank in Canada, or the Bank of Canada, for its face value.
>https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/about-legal-tender/
Keep reading and you'll find they they do not meet the definition of legal tender. Like I said. Here's a quote from their site (https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/bank-note-redemption-s...)
=== Bank notes that are no longer legal tender
Since January 1, 2021, the Canadian $1, $2, $25, $500 and $1,000 bank notes are no longer considered legal tender. Essentially, this means that you may not be able to use them in cash transactions. ===
>> While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition
> What the hell is this supposed to mean? EMV-enabled cards were rolled out as each bank got onboard, replacing cards at expiry with EMV-enabled ones. Eventually no further non-chip cards were issued.
> After a while, the same thing happened for contactless as well.
Again, I am explicitly making the claim that it is misleading to suggest Canada was ahead of the United States by mandating all credit cards have chip and PIN, because by then you could do the same thing with contactless (signatureless transations, with a benefit of not using a pin) just like in the United States.
>> nor different options to use with the same card.
> EMV supports multiple applets per card, so you can absolutely have a debit and a credit card in the same physical card, choosing which you want to use after you insert it into the reader. These are unusual, perhaps because most people seem to prefer separate cards.
I'm aware. I've had one.
>> The assertion that the United States is somehow behind Canada in payment technology because all credit card issuers do not issue cards with chip and PIN seems invalid to me.
> The United States isn't just behind Canada, it's behind Europe, Australia, and most of Asia, as well.
I kindly reject your assertion, because you are basing it on Canada requiring all cards have chip and PIN, but not enforcing its usage at all terminals.
> I can send money from one European country to another in a regulated maximum of 15 seconds 24/7/365 (look up "SCT INST"), but the Americans can't get it from one bank to another in the same country quicker than a day or two (or sometimes three, apparently). Never mind consumers trying to punch in someone's ABA routing and account numbers to pay them... lol nope, hence the mess of insecure third-party services like Zelle, CashApp, etc.
> Skimmers aren't really a thing in Europe because everything is EMV, and I don't mean the abortion which is chip-and-signature (although that still proves possession of the original card).
>> Additionally the surprise at not requiring signatures. Merchants have been accepting contact-less enabled card payments in the United States, requiring no signature, for quite awhile.
> Again you speak from whence you know not. Google Pay and Apple Pay use a different CVM, referred to as CDCVM, for which there is no PIN as user authentication is handled by the device (hence the need for a fingerprint or face scan before they can be used). For small transactions plastic cards are permitted to perform contactless transactions without a PIN in most countries for convenience as the risk of fraud is low given the maximum cumulative cap of perhaps €50/$50, configurable by the issuer, before a PIN becomes required, which caps the bank's liability in case of theft (since the cardholder is not on the hook for it).
I think we're done talking now, given you keep telling me I don't know what I'm saying, and you are obviously just ignoring the fact that I've been completing contactless, signatureless transactions with my credit card for a significant amount of my purchases made in the United States and Canada since 2008.