Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#621

Post by cratermoon » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

hrbf wrote: post #483

Unless I’m missing something major, the article does not answer its headline question in any way. It just presents a bunch of examples but does not come to any conclusion.

Par for the course with question titles. Betteridge's law of headlines says: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."[1]. That rule, however, doesn't apply to "why?" questions because they are not yes/no constructions.

Nevertheless, there's an aspect of Betteridge's law at work here. Running a story that doesn't really have anything to it yet needing to meet production targets – in the old days, column-inches to fill, today, space to place ads. Reporters are required to produce a certain number of articles of a certain length per week. An honest headline would just say, in effect, that after looking into it, the reporter didn't find an answer. An honest headline might be OK in newsprint. Online, the drive for "engagement" requires a headline that will lure readers in, and thus sell ads.

tl;dr money.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#622

Post by cratermoon » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 3:39 PM UTC

epakai wrote: post #511

krzyk wrote: post #404

More important question: Why subtitles are called "closed captions"?

Open captions refer to captions that are part of the video image (sometimes called burned in). In movies they might be used to pass setting information for a scene like time or location. Closed captions are encoded separately and their display is elective.

Today I Learned. Thank you.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#623

Post by isleyaardvark » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

hydrogen7800 wrote: post #241

boltzmann-brain wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slurred dialog is obnoxious and a sign of laziness on everyone's part. The miking, the post processing, the overdubbing (if there's any at all - recent film makers don't seem to know that this is a thing). The actor's speech pattern, where they direct their speech while acting, even how they stand and where. The choice of location and additional preparation of the stage so the speech can be picked up clearly. It'…

Good to know this isn't just my ears or my setup. This was most noticeable to me recently in Dune. So much whispering dialogue, with massive dynamic range and BRAAAM [0]. Using night mode on my receiver and cranking the center channel to +10dB works pretty well for me, though. [0] https://longreads.com/2016/12/08/braaam-inception-hollywood-...

I recommend people watch Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978) to test that. I was impressed with the sound in general and the fact that I felt no need to turn on subtitles. But in particular there's a least one scene where characters are whispering to each other. I didn't need subtitles or to adjust the audio, every word was perfectly intelligble.

It's also a clear sign that it's not my ears, it's not my setup, it's the sound mix of modern movies.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#624

Post by analog31 » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 3:58 PM UTC

moffkalast wrote: post #594

analog31 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition, I've read that young people are going deaf due to ear buds.

Tbf, that's been the case for a hundred years since headphones were invented. I doubt it's changed much.

I suppose that's true. But at least most people took their headphones off when they weren't at home, which somewhat limited their exposure time. Today, when I'm outdoors, it seems like a large fraction of people are wearing earbuds. For instance when I'm riding on the bike path, I have to be alert to the fact that nearly everybody out there who's walking or jogging won't hear my signal from behind as I pass them, because they're all wearing earbuds.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#625

Post by crazygringo » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #588

crazygringo wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I'm in the minority here, but let me explain why it's not terrible audio mixes or bad actors. The overall trend in TV and movies has been towards greater realism in all aspects. Less stage-audience sitcoms, more single-cam. Less "look at this actor" and more "look at this real person". Actors aren't mumbling, they're speaking how real people speak. Trust me, screen actors have more stage training than ever --…

I don't watch a movie to get confused as I may in real life. The director is confused if they don't understand the fundamental rules of cinema - speak clearly and face the camera. No matter the size of the screen, bad acting is bad.

> the fundamental rules of cinema - speak clearly and face the camera

You're literally describing the fundamental rules of cinema... in the 1940's. Back in the studio system, that was exactly with they did, so clearly they even used a fake "transatlantic accent" with heightened enunciation to do it.

And these rules (minus the accent) are still followed to a large degree in middlebrow TV fare like what you watch on ABC or the CW Network. It's also more present in comedies.

But if you're watching a prestige drama on HBO or Netflix? If you're watching The Wire or Succession? If a drug dealer or cop suddenly starts speaking clearly and facing the camera, all believability is instantly shattered.

Your rules for "bad acting" are outdated by about seven decades. In fact, "method acting" in the 1950's was precisely a reaction to the stilted "speak clearly and face the camera" acting of the 1940's. By your standard, Marlon Brando would be a bad actor, since "speak clearly and face the camera" is the polar opposite of what he did.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#626

Post by SilasX » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 4:04 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #573

ryandrake wrote: post #136

One more vote for terrible audio mixes and one for actors who mumble their dialog. Whenever I watch movies with my wife, we constantly have to fiddle with the remote control. The loud parts (including explosions and music) are too loud for her, so we have to turn the volume down during those parts, but the dialog is too quiet and mumbly for me to hear, so we turn the volume up during those parts. We now just keep the…

I know I'm in the minority here, but let me explain why it's not terrible audio mixes or bad actors. The overall trend in TV and movies has been towards greater realism in all aspects. Less stage-audience sitcoms, more single-cam. Less "look at this actor" and more "look at this real person". Actors aren't mumbling, they're speaking how real people speak. Trust me, screen actors have more stage training than ever --…

> Actors aren't mumbling, they're speaking how real people speak. Trust me, screen actors have more stage training than ever -- they know how to enunciate but if they do, the director tells them to stop because they seem like they're giving a fake theatrical performance rather than being a slice of real life.

But if it translates into me not being able to understand them, that’s less realistic, because in a real-world scenario I’d be able to understand them, since our ears are adapted for the real world. A real world slurrer is about as easy to understand as an enunciator through movie speakers — at least, with how the meth-addled mixers do it now.

Bottom line: speech being incomprehensible is not realistic, and is not accomplishing some wonderfully artistic gritty realism.

Edit: To put it a different way: they may be speaking the way real people speak, but once you put it through a speaker, it will translate into something less comprehensible than that speech would be in a real-world scenario, and thus less true to how that situation would be in real life.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#627

Post by crazygringo » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

isleyaardvark wrote: post #614

crazygringo wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I'm in the minority here, but let me explain why it's not terrible audio mixes or bad actors. The overall trend in TV and movies has been towards greater realism in all aspects. Less stage-audience sitcoms, more single-cam. Less "look at this actor" and more "look at this real person". Actors aren't mumbling, they're speaking how real people speak. Trust me, screen actors have more stage training than ever --…

I'm sorry but that is just not true. That kind of naturalistic acting has been the dominant trend in movies since Brando. TV may have been more stage like but definitely not movies.

You're right that it started with Brando and has only come more recently to TV in past decades. But I don't think I said anything to the contrary. I even said "TV is becoming more film-like".

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#628

Post by rdtwo » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #618

rdtwo wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but this is 2022 are there even movie theaters anymore? The box office sales are deep in the red and many theaters are going bankrupt. Most of What I watch are tv shows

People have been saying cinema is dying since Netflix took off. It's not true and still isn't true. Movies continue to set box office records. Covid caused a lot of smaller cinemas and chains high in debt to shut. But a lot of them are still going. Cinemas are pivoting more to the luxury experience rather than just being the place you watch new movies. So they will get bigger screens, better projectors, better audio,…

I mean that works for the theater companies but itv doesn’t really generate more revenue for studios. Their audience is shifting to the home experience

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#629

Post by crazygringo » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #626

crazygringo wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I'm in the minority here, but let me explain why it's not terrible audio mixes or bad actors. The overall trend in TV and movies has been towards greater realism in all aspects. Less stage-audience sitcoms, more single-cam. Less "look at this actor" and more "look at this real person". Actors aren't mumbling, they're speaking how real people speak. Trust me, screen actors have more stage training than ever --…

> Actors aren't mumbling, they're speaking how real people speak. Trust me, screen actors have more stage training than ever -- they know how to enunciate but if they do, the director tells them to stop because they seem like they're giving a fake theatrical performance rather than being a slice of real life. But if it translates into me not being able to understand them, that’s less realistic, because in a real-worl…

To the contrary, it is realistic -- no, you wouldn't understand them in real-life either. Movie speakers aren't slurring anything, as any audio engineer could easily prove to you.

My mother complains about how she can't understand anything when there are Irish or Scottish or even northern English characters in a show.

Decades ago, in an American TV show those characters would have been speaking an understandable American accent with just a few accent "suggestions" to indicate they were "foreign".

Today, it's considered absurd if they speak in anything else but their actual full accent.

It's realism. My mother can't understand it and has to use subtitles. I understand it all perfectly, but I've traveled a lot and learned other languages.

But that's what subtitles are there for. And not all TV/film has to be culturally accessible to everybody, with fake ways of speaking.

Re: Why do all these 20-somethings have closed captions turned on?

#630

Post by klabb3 » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #568

leeter wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theory: Because distribution companies for movies made having DTS/Dolby Atmos/Whatever mandatory in the theater, sound engineers primarily focus on that because that takes 99% of the time. Because theaters with just optical stereo (yes I'm aware most theaters use digital distribution and projectors now, that just hammers home the point) aren't really a thing any more they don't really bother optimizing it because "no…

Yeah but this is 2022 are there even movie theaters anymore? The box office sales are deep in the red and many theaters are going bankrupt. Most of What I watch are tv shows

> Yeah but this is 2022 are there even movie theaters anymore?

My uninformed and probably stupid thoughts:

Hollywood was doing some amazing movies in the 90ish (think Seven, The Matrix, Requiem for a Dream etc). It was a mix of new and established players that were allowed to innovate and be creative. Then Hollywood became more risk averse, I assume because sales were unpredictable and production companies wanted guarantees similar to other industries' large investments. So they started recycling ideas, produce sequels and trading IP rights for dudes in specifically colored spandex suits, which came with a guaranteed fanbase that would watch anything with the brand. This eventually became the MCU-type of crap where everything is a 4th wall joke packed with references to current events, leading to a shelf life less than a year and plots became an afterthought. The sales mindset went as far as putting stuff in the movie for the sake of producing a compelling trailer. At the same time TV was taking the Hollywood's lunch money, but for some reason they doubled down on the approach and blamed streaming for their failures.

The issue isn't the format though, or that everyone has Netflix on their microwave display now. There are still great movies today, and if you get a chance to watch one in a good theatre it's a mesmerizing experience. Me and my partner watched The Joker, 1917 and Dune in Alamo Drafthouse (a theater that has zero-tolerance to texting/talking and serves food & drinks). It's an experience that trumps even great TV shows, when done right. It's just sad that it's so rare.