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Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed?

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Re: Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed?

#101

Post by huhtenberg »

nickjj wrote: post #100

I don't understand, how could a company own your IP if you work outside of business hours on your own computer? Unless it's in direct competition with trade secrets of your employer's business I don't see how they could claim ownership over anything. They can't enforce ownership over generic things like writing a user management system, a billing portal or creating a searchable and sortable data view? Loosely related…

Some employment contracts are like this.

I've ran into this a couple of decades ago interviewing with the EA (Electronic Arts). The guy literally said that if you work "properly" for them, you will not have any time left for side projects or any such nonsense. But this seems to be more of an exception than a common thing. The vast majority of companies are far more reasonable. In some places (Cal?) your right for side projects (and the off-hours IP) even protected by the law.

Re: Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed?

#102

Post by oneplane »

> I see no consideration for those whom are employed under employement contract to assign both moral rights and intellectual property to their employer.

There's your problem.

On one hand you can do whatever you want and see what happens, on the other hand, if you live in a litigious society or have a legal-trigger-happy employer, they could mess with you just for the sake of signalling.

I'd say: either get some sort of exemption, or change the contract. Quitting is a form of contract change. (but quitting in itself might be a whole different problem since you probably still need the salary for normal living etc.)

Personally, I don't sign contracts that would grant a potential customer or employer such rights. Granted, that can limit your options, but that is a choice (and sometimes, luxury) you have to make for yourself.

Re: Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed?

#103

Post by laserlight »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #97
laserlight wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prior to this the contract let the employer claim rights over all IP I created unless specifically exempted. Makes more sense now. Even in that case, I have many questions regarding the quoted parts in the article. Especially regarding the “demarcation of hours of work”, why would the burden of proof be on the employee? Employer is supposed to keep track of hours of work. If they cannot prove that employee develope…

It is pretty common in most US states to own ip developed outside work hours. The concept is pretty simple: by default, your employer is paying you for the ideas you generate, and this could happen at home. Imagine you work in cold fusion research and you spend your days performing tests and reading papers. If you have a dream and wake up with a solution, this is part of what your employer has been paying you for, an…

In case I couldn't make it clear so far, I defend that either of the following conditions should hold for employer to claim rights: (a) IP is developed using company resources (time, equipment, etc.) or (b) IP is within the scope of company's business.

> your employer is paying you for the ideas you generate, and this could happen at home.

If employer's idea is about company's business, then yes, I would say that the company owns the rights. If not, employer owns the rights.

I'm not sure if ideas count as IP though. If I had an idea at work about a business that is outside the scope of my company's, to whom the rights belong?

Re: Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed?

#105

Post by pabe »

You can test B2C ideas using a landing page with a basic funnel, performance Marketing and manual reach out (e.g. FB groups).

It's much harder for B2B. Here, you usually need a good professional social network to get in touch with your target group.

Also, even if you had the perfect product, it's really hard to sell to a big company as long as you're a tiny one. So, get partners who sell for you to their existing contacts. So, if you're for example building a search engine to be integrated in company websites, pitch to larger digital agencies.

Regarding the legal stuff: your parents/ girlfriend/ best friend can be the business "owner" until you get relevant traction.

Re: Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed?

#106

Post by throwaway98797 »

you got to yolo to do start ups

if you’re asking questions this early in the game you’re not ready

i was just like this, i’d analyze and analyze.

starting anything involves risk, business, social, legal, and financial. you won’t ever have enough knowledge to know that everything you’re doing is okay.

this means you either go for it with one, maybe both, eyes closed or keep working for someone else.

Re: Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed?

#107

Post by jensneuse »

laserlight wrote: post #78
jensneuse wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds good! One thing I'd like to add is that some people might be afraid to ask for an IP exclusion. Think about it from an employer perspective. Should they let you go just because you have a side project you'd like to work on? Probably not. If you'd like to sell it, your side project will teach you need skills.

> Should they let you go just because you have a side project you'd like to work on? Probably not. I'm thinking out loud from an employer's perspective: Will this employee leave for his side project, if we not let him work on it? Probably not. Will they leave if this side project succeeds? Probably yes. Will they be less interested and more distracted in our job? Probably yes. So, why risk it.

Very good food for thought. Developers usually never succeed with side projects. They have no clue how to create a business. They love to code. They love to tinker. Let them tinker around. Will they be distracted? Yes! But who cares if your employees browse Hackernews and reddit or build side projects?

Will they leave if it succeeds? Maybe. If it's the case for one of my employees, I will help them, be their Angel, invest into them and help them with my network. I started with a side project myself. It was so hard. We need more smart entrepreneurs and I want to support them.

Will they be less interested? It's possible. At the same time, it's the employers job to offer interesting work.

That said, I don't disagree with you. It always depends. But don't worry so much about the success of side projects. Less than 1% of your employees can turn a side project into something successful.

Re: Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed?

#108

Post by atomkirk »

pabe wrote: post #105

You can test B2C ideas using a landing page with a basic funnel, performance Marketing and manual reach out (e.g. FB groups). It's much harder for B2B. Here, you usually need a good professional social network to get in touch with your target group. Also, even if you had the perfect product, it's really hard to sell to a big company as long as you're a tiny one. So, get partners who sell for you to their existing con…

Ive been running ads to get targeted traffic to my landing pages. Anyone have thoughts on that?

Re: Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed?

#109

Post by fideloper »

throwaway98797 wrote: post #106

you got to yolo to do start ups if you’re asking questions this early in the game you’re not ready i was just like this, i’d analyze and analyze. starting anything involves risk, business, social, legal, and financial. you won’t ever have enough knowledge to know that everything you’re doing is okay. this means you either go for it with one, maybe both, eyes closed or keep working for someone else.

^^ This is literally the only comment here that matters.

“stop talking about it and be about it”

Re: Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed?

#110

Post by atomkirk »

throwaway98797 wrote: post #106

you got to yolo to do start ups if you’re asking questions this early in the game you’re not ready i was just like this, i’d analyze and analyze. starting anything involves risk, business, social, legal, and financial. you won’t ever have enough knowledge to know that everything you’re doing is okay. this means you either go for it with one, maybe both, eyes closed or keep working for someone else.

I disagree. If you can get a few people who are regularly and eagerly talking to you about your idea because they really want it, then it’s much safer to take the dive.
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