I once had my all my devices searched when returning to my home country (Australia). They kept my phone for a few days too. They didn't find anything and I wasn't charged wth any crime. But you only have to suffer this massive invasion of privacy once to make make sure it never happens again. Now when I return home I wipe all my devices in the time it takes to de-plane, collect bags and get to customs. Easy enough to get back up and running fairly quickly with an iCloud backup once I get home. Looks like I might have to do the same if I ever decide to visit the US again.
US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#552On my last trip back from Europe in June, when I re-entered the US, US Customs & Border Control didn't ask for my passport. No one did. They did wave a webcam connected to a computer in front of my face, and then a moment later, called out my name and said I could enter. Same with everyone coming through the international border area. I think that's just as weird a development and worthy of "WTH?" as this topic.
Same. I think it's great. Saves me having to take out my passport and the border control agent has all the info they need. Yes, your face is saved in their DB but so are your fingerprints.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#553Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#554No post body was provided.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#555Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe what is being said is: If you are a citizen of the United States of America, and you are returning to the United States from a foreign country, Customs and Border Patrol are not allowed to deny you entry to the United States of America. Of course the caveats - if you, as the citizen, have an outstanding warrant, they can arrest you. They can take your electronics. They can delay you. They can put you in a r…
They (US CBP for US ciizen) have to let you in. But they will lie to you and tell you they won't let you in. They will also lie to you and tell you they have the power to cancel your passport. I've had them pull both 'tricks' on me. Not a lot of people are well versed on their rights and without access to a lawyer it would be easy to believe a federal officer when they tell you these things. If you believe what a fed…
We really need to be putting these people in jail for these kind of lies.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#556Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why the hell would anybody sane, especially with all knowledge average HN user has about government overreach and greed, hacks, 0days, bugs etc. ever put such a critical item as banking app on their phone? Apple vs Android is irrelevant in this, there is no truly safe mainstream phone in 2022, period. Are people really that lazy? I do manage quite a few financial things but for none of those phone apps is crucial and…
> Why the hell would anybody sane, especially with all knowledge average HN user has about government overreach and greed, hacks, 0days, bugs etc. ever put such a critical item as banking app on their phone? Because it's convenient, and security is a trade off with convenience. I use banking apps on my phone, and I suspect many (most, even) people here on HN (and who are technically savvy in general) do as well. That…
Neither are laptops or desktops
Perhaps, but at least I know how to audit a laptop or desktop. How would you audit iOS or Android?
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#557Earlier quoted context omitted.
For people renting it is routine to receive mail for several previous tenants. Everytime you throw away a credit card sign-up offer for someone else, you are committing a felony.
Yup! Write "Not at this Address" and put it in the outbox if you have one, or back in your mailbox with flag up.
I did this with mail from the tax service addressed to the previous tenant. The result? A few days later I received the same mail in my inbox again, plus another one. Returned both of them, a few weeks later I received 4 mails.
When I started receiving more than 20 mails in one day, all from the tax service to that previous tenant, I bought a shredder and shredded the entire stack of mails. Some years later, I was still shredding mails. My magnanimity to correct for government failures only goes so far.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#558Earlier quoted context omitted.
That analogy may be more insightful than you meant it to be. Animal cells (e.g., the ones in your body or mine) do not have cell walls. They do have membranes surrounding the cells, but they aren't walls. In the same way, any country has borders, but there's a lot of scope for variation in what they allow across the border under what conditions. "Open borders" does not mean "no borders". For instance, the borders bet…
You've made a useless semantic argument between using the word "wall" vs "membrane". A membrane or wall regulate the input/output of everything in/out of the cell - from water to proteins to everything else. A cell without a membrane dies - immediately.
No, I've made a substantive observation about the point actually at issue: you implied that every country necessarily has immigration controls at its border, which in fact is not true.
You had tried to support that claim by making an analogy with biological cells, and it pleased me that in fact my counter-point fits into that analogy, but it doesn't really matter: if it turns out that the cell-analogue of "every country has to have immigration controls at its border" is true, all that means is that cells were a bad analogy because, again, it is simply not true that every country needs immigration controls at its border.
I am not a cell biologist so this might be wrong, but my understanding is that cell membranes are in fact permeable to water and don't have any particular ability to regulate the movement of water in and out of the cell. The rate at which that happens will be affected by e.g. concentration of solutes on each side, but it's not a thing a typical cell has mechanisms for controlling. I think there are such mechanisms in some cells in the kidney, but AIUI while most (all?) cells have aquaporins there's nothing adjusting their permeability. But, once again, while this is all interesting in its own right it tells us nothing about what countries can, or do, or should regulate. If some researcher makes a stunning discovery that overturns our understanding of what cell membranes do, the appropriate adjustment in national-border regulation will be zero.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#559Earlier quoted context omitted.
That analogy may be more insightful than you meant it to be. Animal cells (e.g., the ones in your body or mine) do not have cell walls. They do have membranes surrounding the cells, but they aren't walls. In the same way, any country has borders, but there's a lot of scope for variation in what they allow across the border under what conditions. "Open borders" does not mean "no borders". For instance, the borders bet…
To get into the Schengen area there is a bit more inspection though right? We are just talking about a bigger cell.
We're talking about a multicellular organism. An animal's skin keeps out things that its individual cell membranes aren't concerned with.
(I don't actually think the details of what cell walls, cell membranes, skin, etc., do and don't regulate / completely block really tell us anything much about what should happen at national borders. If tomorrow someone discovered a previously unknown regulatory mechanism in cell membranes, that shouldn't make anyone change their mind about immigration controls. The way these analogies actually work is that someone decides what they think about immigration on other grounds, and then goes looking for an analogy that fits the rhetorical point they want to make. Someone arguing for "open borders" would probably choose something else rather than cells to make analogies with. The analogy isn't doing any real intellectual work, it's just window-dressing.)
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#560Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well I wasn't asking about the unrelated example, but rather the phrase I quoted.
I'm not sure this is really going to be worth the effort but for some reason I can't seem to just let this one go. Let's trace this back to the beginning ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32866019 ): This is /u/xoa quoting from TFA: > Hassan Shibly, chief executive director of CAIR Florida, tells The Verge that most people who are shown the form giving CBP authority to search their device believe that they have…
I don't know how you're improving your case here at all.
>> people have been killed by law enforcement for doing what you are suggesting.
> Can you cite any examples of this happening? I’m a pretty big policing reform person and follow this stuff closely and can’t think of a single case like this.
And at this point, you decided to react with snark. Here's why that was wrong:
1. George Floyd is an example of what happened to George Floyd, so why would he ask for an example of what happened to George Floyd? Is that arguing in good faith?
2. Did you honestly think a "pretty big policing reform person" wouldn't be aware of George Floyd? This is why his question was clear to everyone.
3. George Floyd's case was actually irrelevant to the thrust of the discussion, which was the perils of refusing to allow a search of property at a border.