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U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#491
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was to your comment. Google blocks some spam messages before they reach your inbox and you can't disable this

In which case I am saying that that seems dangerous for them to be doing under this law, but that the concept of a spam filter isn't fundamentally broken and so people--such as the person I am responding to--who seem concerned that they won't be able to filter spam going forward are off-base, as I would think the spam filter need only be configurable (and, certainly, it would not prevent a third-party spam filter fro…

It is configurable in that if you don't like the spam filter you don't have to use the service

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit banned /r/TheDonald, which would have certainly run afoul of this law. You may respond that there were policy based reasons for doing so (brigading, harassment, etc.) and you'd be right. But that's true of moderation decisions made by Facebook and Twitter too, or at least they would say so. In fact that ban was far more egregious than any of the moderation decisions that are being targeted by this law at the b…

Prior to banning /r/The_Donald, Reddit created /r/popular as a default alternative to /r/all to prevent posts from /r/The_Donald from making it to the front page. Interestingly, they didn't ban any of the other obnoxious political subreddits that people were complaining about. https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/5u9pl5/intro... (Not a Trump fan or even right-leaning, just pointing out that Reddit administ…

Yeah I mean I think it is and should be within their rights. /r/TheDonald was not merely expressing a political viewpoint. It was doing a lot of other stuff. But the proponents of this law would view banning it was a violation.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet may have been “created” by the federal government. But most of the investment and infrastructure is very much done by private companies. If the government of Texas wants a free for all social platform, they can create one.

> If the government of Texas wants a free for all social platform, they can create one. Actually, it seems like they can create these laws, that have been upheld by the court system as being completely legal. And then if social media companies break these completely legal laws, then they will be massively fined and ordered by the court to change.

They can also force a 11 year old to have a baby after she has been raped and leave a pregnant lady bleeding because the doctor is afraid to terminate the pregnancy. That doesn’t mean it’s right…

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#495

I do think there's a rationale middle of the road here. Hear me out. I think if you provide a service that basically creates a free public sphere, and you don't charge for it, it makes sense to consider what you're offering a public sphere and that just mean it has to be treated like one, where you should be free to speak up and mobilize peacefully. If social platforms charge a fee, or subscription, then it is a priv…

Your argument starts with an assertion that I don't think is true "think if you provide a service that basically creates a free public sphere, " You don't provide any justification for this

> "think if you provide a service that basically creates a free public sphere, " You don't provide any justification for this

My justification is two fold. Number one, I think there's a large amount of people who believe that these new media should be covered by free speech. I think you can disagree, but just the fact that a lot of people think so makes it legitimate in my opinion. The question is, is it reasonable for others who don't think so, and what's the right balance. It's one thing to say people can exercise there right to free speech on these new media platforms, and another to allow them to be abused by various bad actors, or for undemocratic political gain.

My second justification is that these platforms effectively steal public channels of their attention, through subsidization.

In my opinion, if you subvert public spheres by making spheres of discussion that are more enticing, but still free, but obviously you make money from secondary means from it. This in itself is against free speech.

People trying to exercise their free speech shouldn't have the added difficulty of having to compete with your platform to get people's attention and time of day.

My third justification is, we have to go back to what we even mean by the right to free speech.

> the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Now logically, this implies an assumption that you can assemble and petition somewhere that will reach others and the government.

It would be silly to say, ok, you're allowed to do this, but only in some isolated room that's sound proof by yourself.

What that means is to me, it implies there has to be a way to do it that can reach others and the government, and that's also an implied right.

If people are now online and on some social media platform, and that's realistically the only place to reach others and the government, I think it makes it that that place now becomes the place where this right applies.

Finally, my last justification is on the public/private debate.

Public means:

> done, perceived, or existing in open view > ordinary people in general; the community

I think even if you're a private space, but you open yourself to the public in that sense, it does make you a public sphere, and so again the right of the ordinary people you've invited now applies.

In the end though, I don't think all of this matters much, like I said, I think just the fact many people are asking for this can be good enough to consider a reasonable way of making it happen. And I think what I described is sensible, will protect the platforms from abuse, the people from having the platform subverted by bad actors or people looking to manipulate or control a narrative for their own interests, but also give an avenue for people to petition for changes in a fair manner.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#496
post #72

Important to note that this 5th Circuit ruling conflicts with the 11th Circuit's ruling. And SCOTUS had previously reinstated an injunction against this very same law. And this 5th Circuit opinion has very idiosyncratic reasoning [0, just the first few pages will blow your hair back]. A sample: "In urging such sweeping relief, the platforms offer a rather odd inversion of the First Amendment. That Amendment, of cours…

In one case the corporation is speaking. In the other the corporation is facilitating me speaking to you (like a telephone wire). That strikes me as a pretty clear distinction. My hair is not blown back at all here.

> like a telephone wire

That's not why people write on social media. There are very many "telephone wires" that have nobody listening on the other side. What every contributor is after is the audience. But there is no legal right to an audience.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#497

Will this apply to bots? What if I have a big list of a complaints about a certain politician (use your imagination, there's more than one politician to complain about), but the "other party" doesn't follow me, in fact, I have very few followers overall. So I create a bot that spreads my opinions by replying to millions of other Tweets. Anyone who mentions the politician of interest will receive a reply from "me" (my…

In Reamde, Neal Stephenson posits a future where we pay individuals/services to filter and prioritize the unordered deluge of data from the web. It seems like this ruling pushes us along that path.

Welcome to microdata refinement

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't they just ban all mass-botting? That doesn't have anything to do with speech, it's just banning what amounts to spambots.

What law makes spambotting illegal?

Doesn’t have to be a law, can be terms of service, as it’s not individual speech.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#499
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This opinion is just badly written and badly reasoned. It's not even well written enough that it is worth trying to debate. Of course the judges in question were rated unqualified by the ABA (which is a really low bar) so not surprising.

The ABA at this point is a partisan institution. Go read into some of their politics and realize that they are very much left-leaning. Edit: example https://www.wsj.com/articles/anticompetitive-woke-law-school...

Next you'll try to convince me the Chamber of Commerce is a leftist institution.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This says an admin was accused of editing posts, it doesn't provide proof. It then says users down voted him not employees of reddit. Also subbit reddit admins aren't employees , I believe most people can create a subreddit and be an admin

He admitted it himself that he did it: https://old.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/5frg1n/tifu_...

That's one person in a large company the original comment claimed it was multiple employees and a policy of the company
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