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Alright, man
Rapid Green Energy Transition Will Likely Result in Trillions of Net Savings
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Re: Rapid Green Energy Transition Will Likely Result in Trillions of Net Savings
#32the cynic in me says that those savings will just become profits for the companies and government through taxes and greed....so savings are relative. Also it seems to be highly dependent on solar mass adoption
I would say that's a pretty optimistic prediction. The cynical prediction is that this rapid energy transition simply doesn't happen.
Re: Rapid Green Energy Transition Will Likely Result in Trillions of Net Savings
#33the cynic in me says that those savings will just become profits for the companies and government through taxes and greed....so savings are relative. Also it seems to be highly dependent on solar mass adoption
> will just become profits for the companies ... greed
Of course they will. You can thank this effect for the high standard of living we enjoy from the free market.
Re: Rapid Green Energy Transition Will Likely Result in Trillions of Net Savings
#34the cynic in me says that those savings will just become profits for the companies and government through taxes and greed....so savings are relative. Also it seems to be highly dependent on solar mass adoption
You know, collectively, we can do something about that… It’s a political decision in society to allow that added value to be sucked up by those who are already wealthy.
You can buy stock in those companies and get your share of the profits.
Re: Rapid Green Energy Transition Will Likely Result in Trillions of Net Savings
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
History is long, and capitalism as we know it is only a couple centuries old (and that's being generous). It's easy to forget that there was a before because it's very common to frame even old economic systems in modern terms, but things changing is the only real constant. There'll be an after too.
How do you define capitalism, I’m curious, in this context? What was it 200 years ago that made it different from 400 years ago?
The industrial revolution and the beginnings of a global liberal trade order pretty substantially changed the shape of the world's economic system, even if sometimes people call predecessor systems like mercantilism a kind of capitalism.
But if you want to extend the time horizon to 400 years (ie. to the beginning of the end of feudalism) that's still not that long in the grand scheme of things.
That said I don't really know if I buy that we're in that system anymore either; I think history books will probably eventually recognize a shift starting around the collapse of Breton Woods and that we're currently in a long and increasingly painful transitionary period that we're in denial about to something we can't yet describe.
But I Am Not An Economist (nor do I want to be one), so who knows.
Re: Rapid Green Energy Transition Will Likely Result in Trillions of Net Savings
#36I am just curious about manufacturing capacity of these green energy gadgets in Western World. When I look at the parts for my solar installation everything is made in Asia. My system is rather simple: 4-6 panels each ~400 Wp and stupid single phase inverter. That battery production isn’t a thing in the West is already well known fact. In my eyes this green energy transition totally depends on factories in Asia. And…
Battery production capacity is becoming more decentralized, as countries with large production capabilities stay somewhat stagnant but other countries build factories. China's percentage of world battery production is expected to drop over the next few years while most other countries are expected to increase production capacity.[1] See Tesla's investment in the gigafactory or Panasonic's investment in battery manufacturing in Kansas for examples of this happening. Germany specifically, since you mention it, is expected to surge quite a bit in the global battery market.
1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1249871/share-of-the-glo...
P.S. I suggest opening the statista link in a private tab, I just noticed the second time you visit it you are paywall blocked.
Re: Rapid Green Energy Transition Will Likely Result in Trillions of Net Savings
#37Garbage comment from an uninformed SW engineer: How, in the current economic and geopolitical environment, can they project that production costs will continue to decline?
Green tech requires massive amounts of dirty energy to produce. It also has been benefiting from globalization which is now going in reverse. I would add at least 5 years to any timeline given because of the recalibrating global energy and materials supply chains will be undergoing over time.
We're probably short of copper. Is anyone figuring out a way to use aluminum as a substitute in many applications? We can work around several of the other critical shortages(nickel, cobalt, not-so-rare rare earths, lithium) in time, either with alternatives or increased extraction, but copper seems like a tough one.
There is a lot of wishful thinking or naivete in the political class driving these transitions. I agree that we need to move rapidly to decarbonize but there seems to be a lack of appreciation for the actual work involved in the transition. There is also a parasite-class of folks whispering deceitful tales in the ears of politicians(ahem, hydrogen, ahem) which really only cares about getting their cut.
Politicians need to understand you don't just order solar panels and batteries off Amazon. Someone needs to make them, and that someone better be a country you're not in a proxy war or a hot war with. We need to invest in practical measures not just fairy tales that leave us in the dark for a decade or more while we figure out hard lessons.
Re: Rapid Green Energy Transition Will Likely Result in Trillions of Net Savings
#38Can we really build batteries at the scale needed for this? I’m a bit skeptical.
Why? The materials needed for LiFePO4 batteries are very common, and we only need a few dozen large factories and refineries. Compared to the size of the fossil fuel extraction industry, it's tiny. The only question is how quickly we can build up to the scale needed, not if we can.
Phosphorus is essential to growing food and shortages have already begun.
Re: Rapid Green Energy Transition Will Likely Result in Trillions of Net Savings
#39Re: Rapid Green Energy Transition Will Likely Result in Trillions of Net Savings
#40Quoted post unavailable.
Please have a look here: https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
The evidence is clear and uncontroversial (and has been for decades).