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U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

reuters.com

261–270 of 1001 posts

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a free-speech absolutist, the basic problem you should have with this is that as precedent, it would lead right into the legislature being able to force the press to publish certain things because not doing so would be 'censorship'.

How could this set precedent for compelled speech of publishers? Facebook, Twitter, and Google aren't even publishers.

If filtering is not publishing then what is it? Do we need a new term for this arrangement?

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let each user block what they don’t want to see. With filters, ai, etc. Don’t have a centralized “overlord” decide what an individual is allowed to see. That should be obvious and not controversial.

Having run a mail server, I don't think it's reasonable to expect most people to contain the deluge of spam and phishing attacks they would get if just told them to "sort it out" themselves.

You misunderstood. Don’t require users to build their bubbles, but have providers offer bubbles for a user to choose from. You could even have external bubble providers that offer different technologies and qualities of filters.

Just don’t have one centralised overlord.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#263

There's discussion over what exactly a "political view" is here. I find this quote from a previous article [1] enlightening: > "No one—not lawyers, not judges, not experts in the field, not even the law's own sponsors—knows what compliance with this law looks like." [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/05/texas-law-bannin...

Well, I know my political opinion is that you should check out my new product, and I'm going to express this political opinion a lot. If necessary I'll include a sentence about a US President. I'm half serious here. I would love to tell people about a new game I have on Steam (let's say), so I code a WebDriver "tool". It searches out gaming related Tweets and then expresses my political opinion. I have to press enter…

The very fact that you made this comment implies that you expect the public to understand what it means. Therefore, so would a jury of your peers. In other words, if you get that this behavior is just a twist on botting, it's safe to assume the courts will too.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#264
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"proactive"... how? By making rulings that you agree with? Is it fair to say that your opinion on this matter boils down to "companies should ignore the courts if it's a ruling I don't like"?

Reducing all objections to anything to "disagreement" or "not liking it" is a sure sign of bad faith discussion.

I'm not claiming that the objections are of equal merit, but a moral/legal system is clearly not going to work on a societal level if it's just going to be "it's fine to disregard the legal system if you think there's a good reason for it".

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#265

As a free-speech absolutist, I got no problem with this. Unless the speech is threatening the direct physical harm of someone, or violating a law, it should be allowed. At the same time, everyone else should have the tools to filter, block, and mute speech they do not like. If a tweet or a social media post has a certain word or phrase in it that I don’t like, I should be able to mute that and never see it. Social me…

I've been wondering about a technical solution to this problem for a while now. It seems like a properly distributed social media network would still need moderation... but who is to say everyone has to use the same moderators? What if we distributed the task of content moderation and allowed users to subscribe to a moderation team the same way they subscribe to a friend's updates? In this way, users could tune their…

Publish all content to blockchain and let the users create their own interfaces as they choose. But first make all content equally and indisputably available?

I’d be cool with this.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#266
People often want free speech when it favors their side, and they will likewise rationalize against free speech when it doesn't. We should be able to talk and think about laws outside the very specific political context of the day, but Reuters cannot help but remind the reader that free speech online may enable 'violence' and that this ruling is a win for all sorts of people associated with Republicans and Donald Trump - as if to say you are somehow associated with such viewpoints because you have libertarian views on what thoughts people are allowed to be exposed to. It reads very biased.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a Linux User Group cannot kick out someone that's espousing neo-nazi viewpoints during meetings because they're a facilitator of them speaking to you, and because neo-nazism is a political viewpoint?

By some readings of section 230, they may not be able to unless they want to be treated as a publisher of speech. However, almost nobody is going to actually argue that this is the case. Also, IIRC moderation rules are allowed, and if your rule is "no politics on the forum" and someone talks politics, they can be banned. Same with "no racism" or "no antisemitic comments."

> By some readings of section 230

No, only by a reading of a made up text that some people wish was in section 230. If you're bringing it up I'm sure you've had pointed out before that there is no publisher/platform distinction in it.

> Also, IIRC moderation rules are allowed, and if your rule is "no politics on the forum" and someone talks politics, they can be banned.

The first person you ban is going to argue with you about the definition of "politics". So many people have been through this idea before, and it always leads right back to "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#268
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already passed, it's a law on the books in Texas. And now it's been upheld at by both trial and circuit courts. FWIW: there's one last chance at SCOTUS to undo this, but if that doesn't work out what we're almost certain to see instead of "pre-filtering" is just "No Tweeting from Texas".

The apparent disdain for Texas in this thread is bizarre.

As a not-Texan, almost all of what I hear about Texas is oil, conservatism, failed power systems during winter, anti-abortion-rights, and using immigrants as political theater by sending them to DC/NY. I don't know that the disdain is unexpected given the political leaning of people working in technology.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#269
post #254
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decision[0] gives different logic (quoting from page 85): If a firm’s core business is disseminating others’ speech, then that should weaken, not strengthen, the firm’s argument that it has a First Amendment right to censor that speech. In PruneYard, for example, the shopping mall was open to the public—but for the purpose of shopping, not sharing expression. So it was perhaps tenuous for the State to use the pub…

That seems like a silly distinction. At a broad level, all discussion can be seen as political. And it is natural for events to be dominated by actions from a side for a time, such that it would be natural for more criticisms of a political party over others at any time. This gets dangerously into the "whataboutisms" of toxic discourse. Especially when they are not presented in at all an even or good faith manner.

What? No they aren’t. A discussion about my week or grocery shopping isn’t political.

You can make any discussion political, but that’s not at all the same.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#270

Important to note that this 5th Circuit ruling conflicts with the 11th Circuit's ruling. And SCOTUS had previously reinstated an injunction against this very same law. And this 5th Circuit opinion has very idiosyncratic reasoning [0, just the first few pages will blow your hair back]. A sample: "In urging such sweeping relief, the platforms offer a rather odd inversion of the First Amendment. That Amendment, of cours…

It’s a pretty abrupt turnaround from the same legal movement that brought us Citizens United . I’d be interested in a fair (i.e. not overly critical or fawning) book length history of the Federalist Society and how it’s evolved.

It's a mistake to think of much of the American right as a legal movement or theory vs something more akin to a moral or religious one. Consistency is not the point. The examples of this in the media are the easiest to see: consider the performative outrage and hurt feelings you'll get on a Monday with the grief of how everyone is such a snowflake today on a Tuesday.

(EDIT: this is in all likelihood true for every political party everywhere - that in practice not every decision comes down to strict application of some theory - but the American right often makes fairly strong claims to some inherent pureness of principle that cannot be backed up by the facts of their behavior.)

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