Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Ethereum merge is done

coindesk.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

981–990 of 1001 posts

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#981

Post by danuker »

majinuub wrote: post #548
hoosieree wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still flummoxed why people use blockchains for any kind of data or computation. Fundamentally isn't blockchain a tech stack built on a linked list with mandatory network calls in every operation? It seems purposefully inefficient. At least in theory it had a point (decentralized control). In practice, however...

The only purpose of a blockchain is to decentralize the storage and validation of data. It only makes sense if the decentralization is worth the loss in efficiency. Using a blockchain just to store data and perform computations when you have no reason to decentralize will only result in a crappy, slow database.

I agree completely, and I am disappointed that so many projects start which have no benefit from the computation redundancy (yet will have to pay for it).

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#982

Post by danuker »

franky47 wrote: post #529
jqpabc123 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not saying it is "carbon-negative" --- he's saying it is more efficient and avoids a megaton of carbon that would otherwise have been released.

In this case "removing" is not the right term, but "avoid emitting". No carbon will be removed in any case, be it PoW or PoS.

You are correct.

Reminds me of "negative GDP growth", one of the most roundabout ways to say "wealth creation slowdown".

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#983

Post by MrMan »

dinobones wrote: post #920
Waterluvian wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not using up a goat load of electricity is like 99% of why this change is great. Let people speculate on their funny money without harming everyone. A lateral move on the other details is rather unsurprising.

The thing is, most "crypto haters" on HN are just regretful no-coiners. Crypto is exactly the type of thing you would except HN to love, it ticks the box in so many ways, except for the one where... They forgot to buy some and are forever resentful. I honestly struggle to believe this group of people truly care that much about crypto's effects on the environment; from the people I've spoken about this with personally…

Global warming will kill everyone no matter how much crypto they own

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#984

Post by MrMan »

Jasper_ wrote: post #669
ineedasername wrote: post #444

Prior to the merge ethereum’s trust was controlled by the organizations with the most money who bought/built massive data centers to mine it. With the merge & staking that abstraction layer has disappeared and it’s still the organizations with the most money who control it. Sure it’s great that non-productive math problems no longer need to be solved & consume so much energy and hardware to make it all work. And it m…

My view is that crypto's goals (e.g. decentralized, deflationary, no transaction reversals) are non-goals, but even if those non-goals were goals, both PoW and PoS fail to effectively solve them, especially the decentralized part. PoS sucks more than PoW on this axis: PoS encourages centralization within the system (those with more ETH control the chain), and PoW encourages centralization outside the system (those wh…

POW is suicide, POS is doomed to fail. So let's give up and try to edit humanity such that we cure our greed and stupidity.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#985

Post by MrMan »

mort96 wrote: post #959
ibeckermayer wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "liberation of people" can only happen by having a working democracy If 51% democratically voted to enslave the other 49%, that would be a working democracy but far from "liberation of people".

51% of people being able to enslave the other 49% of people is terrible, and there absolutely should be measures in a democracy to protect minorities against majorities. But what's usually left out when people bring out that argument, is that the alternative is worse. If the 51% can enslave the 49% in a democracy, then the 1% can enslave the 99% in a system where people vote with their money. In both versions, you ne…

Well the course we are on will result in the poor 99 percent murderinging the 1 percent which I am curious about, and my tone is neutral and I am steelmanning the 1 percent

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#986

Post by MrMan »

oblio wrote: post #820
galaxyLogic wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> liberation of people from massively powerful banks and governments The difference between business and governments is that in business every dollar has a vote, whereas in a democracy every adult has a vote. "liberation of people" can only happen by having a working democracy. And a working democracy can only exist when there is (democratically elected) government. So it's not like people should be liberated from go…

To add to your comment, we want a *powerful* and accountable government. Weak governments make for failed states, because corporations and other interest groups such as gangs, warlords, control things instead.

Failed states are good for VC up to a point

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#987

Post by seibelj »

dang wrote: post #808
seibelj wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

If you keep posting this sort of low-value flamewar comment we are going to have to ban you. We have cut you miles of slack for years, but the slack is not infinite. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: I know this sounds harsh, but there's a ton of history here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29687129 .

I will be better.

I still feel like absolutely bonkers stuff is posted about crypto and they get a pass - extremely low-effort lies and drivel - then I post my counterpoint hot take and it’s “You flame bait moron!”

Similarly I am passionate about China and communism given… the murders in my family… but again, we are supposed to call out certain topics but not others.

My defense, but noted on I’m on my final final warning.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#988

Post by ramijames »

funklute wrote: post #277
phartenfeller wrote: post #273

I appreciate it wasting less precious energy. But this change also means that "Decentralisation" and "Power to the people" are fading away right? The wealthy actors are the ones dictating the transaction now and they also on top get paid for being rich. This does not sound like a "better financial system" for me. Also, don't forget the DAO Fork[0] where with the "ungovernable Blockhain" it was decided a transaction w…

> But this change also means that "Decentralisation" and "Power to the people" are fading away right? But it was always like this, also with proof of work. PoS and PoW are both just variations of "proof of resources", which in turn is a convenient substitution for likelihood that one's voting power is independent. If you want to give "power to the people", you need some way of estimating independent voting power, tha…

I help run the Ultra blockchain.

We have a concept called Proof of Authority where we basically went out and picked competent teams that have a vested interest in ensuring the blockchain is successful. They run the infrastructure in a fully decentralized manner, but we work as a group. There are 7 "pools" and we will eventually expand to 11. It's not decentralized as commonly understood, but way better (imo) than just putting whoever is richest in charge.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#989

Post by dang »

seibelj wrote: post #987
dang wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you keep posting this sort of low-value flamewar comment we are going to have to ban you. We have cut you miles of slack for years, but the slack is not infinite. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: I know this sounds harsh, but there's a ton of history here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29687129 .

I will be better. I still feel like absolutely bonkers stuff is posted about crypto and they get a pass - extremely low-effort lies and drivel - then I post my counterpoint hot take and it’s “You flame bait moron!” Similarly I am passionate about China and communism given… the murders in my family… but again, we are supposed to call out certain topics but not others. My defense, but noted on I’m on my final final war…

Thanks. I know it always feels like the other side started it and did worse [1]. There are always datapoints around to support that idea, since we don't come close to seeing everything that gets posted here [2].

But if people feel like that makes it ok to break the rules themselves, we end up with a downward spiral [3], so that can't be right. The solution is to stick to the site guidelines no matter what other people do, and let us know about the other cases by flagging them or emailing us.

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

[3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#990

Post by unity1001 »

ibeckermayer wrote: post #828
galaxyLogic wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> liberation of people from massively powerful banks and governments The difference between business and governments is that in business every dollar has a vote, whereas in a democracy every adult has a vote. "liberation of people" can only happen by having a working democracy. And a working democracy can only exist when there is (democratically elected) government. So it's not like people should be liberated from go…

> "liberation of people" can only happen by having a working democracy If 51% democratically voted to enslave the other 49%, that would be a working democracy but far from "liberation of people".

If you have a society where there is that clear distinction in between the 51% and 49%, then you dont have one country. You have two countries. Its not applicable.
Post reply on HN