Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why • Hacker News Board

Re: Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why

#281

Post by jjcm » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 7:00 PM UTC

Sukotto wrote: post #278

gnaffle wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many airports make you spend an hour or two going through security? When flying, I usually spend an hour or two in total at the airport, but that includes check-in, security, waiting for and boarding plane, then de-planing and sometimes waiting for luggage. Not to mention the transport time to and from the airports. Security and safety is a pretty insignificant part of that time, and waiting in line at the airpor…

Two hours total? I wish I could do as well. When I fly (as infrequently as possible), I have to budget at least 5.5 hours from my front door to boarding the plane. Here's my time budget based on 10 years of flying out of New York City from Newark (and occasionally JFK) |-----------+----------------------------| | Time (hr) | Activity | |-----------+----------------------------| | 1 | Drive to airport | | 0.5 | Find p…

I agree that security these days is by far overkill, and even agree with many of the deadweight statistics in this thread. But 5.5 hours is highly abnormal. I fly fast, I generally leave my house about an hour before my flight. I'm lucky enough to be a short 10 minute drive from my airport. Security usually takes me around 5-10 minutes at SJC, and 10-15 minutes at SFO. I can fit two weeks of clothing (fresh shirts for every day, two pairs of jeans, fresh underwear and socks for every day, a jacket and a blazer) as well as all my office supplies and toiletries into carryon baggage, so I never check bags. All in all it's usually 45 minutes from my front door til I step on the plane. It's not hard to make flying fast, it just takes dexterity with the security. The TSA themselves recommend showing up 90 minutes to 2 hours before your flight, but it's very doable to show up 30 minutes prior. I fly about once a month for business, and I've yet to miss a flight.

Re: Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why

#282

Post by gruuk » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 7:15 PM UTC

Sukotto wrote: post #278

gnaffle wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many airports make you spend an hour or two going through security? When flying, I usually spend an hour or two in total at the airport, but that includes check-in, security, waiting for and boarding plane, then de-planing and sometimes waiting for luggage. Not to mention the transport time to and from the airports. Security and safety is a pretty insignificant part of that time, and waiting in line at the airpor…

Two hours total? I wish I could do as well. When I fly (as infrequently as possible), I have to budget at least 5.5 hours from my front door to boarding the plane. Here's my time budget based on 10 years of flying out of New York City from Newark (and occasionally JFK) |-----------+----------------------------| | Time (hr) | Activity | |-----------+----------------------------| | 1 | Drive to airport | | 0.5 | Find p…

We just call a car service since we're close to a couple of airports; while proximity and being dropped at the terminal save time, even if all goes well we're still talking at least two hours.

Re: Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why

#283

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 7:58 PM UTC

Sukotto wrote: post #278

gnaffle wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many airports make you spend an hour or two going through security? When flying, I usually spend an hour or two in total at the airport, but that includes check-in, security, waiting for and boarding plane, then de-planing and sometimes waiting for luggage. Not to mention the transport time to and from the airports. Security and safety is a pretty insignificant part of that time, and waiting in line at the airpor…

Two hours total? I wish I could do as well. When I fly (as infrequently as possible), I have to budget at least 5.5 hours from my front door to boarding the plane. Here's my time budget based on 10 years of flying out of New York City from Newark (and occasionally JFK) |-----------+----------------------------| | Time (hr) | Activity | |-----------+----------------------------| | 1 | Drive to airport | | 0.5 | Find p…

[deleted]

Re: Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why

#284

Post by sudonim » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 8:42 PM UTC

Sukotto wrote: post #278

gnaffle wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many airports make you spend an hour or two going through security? When flying, I usually spend an hour or two in total at the airport, but that includes check-in, security, waiting for and boarding plane, then de-planing and sometimes waiting for luggage. Not to mention the transport time to and from the airports. Security and safety is a pretty insignificant part of that time, and waiting in line at the airpor…

Two hours total? I wish I could do as well. When I fly (as infrequently as possible), I have to budget at least 5.5 hours from my front door to boarding the plane. Here's my time budget based on 10 years of flying out of New York City from Newark (and occasionally JFK) |-----------+----------------------------| | Time (hr) | Activity | |-----------+----------------------------| | 1 | Drive to airport | | 0.5 | Find p…

I didn't down vote you, but I fly out of JFK too. For an international flight, I hop in a black car from manhattan 3 hours before the flight. For a domestic, I leave my apartment 2.5 hrs before the flight. Others may have downvoted because they thought you were exaggerating.

Re: Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why

#285

Post by cbr » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 8:44 PM UTC

Sukotto wrote: post #278

gnaffle wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many airports make you spend an hour or two going through security? When flying, I usually spend an hour or two in total at the airport, but that includes check-in, security, waiting for and boarding plane, then de-planing and sometimes waiting for luggage. Not to mention the transport time to and from the airports. Security and safety is a pretty insignificant part of that time, and waiting in line at the airpor…

Two hours total? I wish I could do as well. When I fly (as infrequently as possible), I have to budget at least 5.5 hours from my front door to boarding the plane. Here's my time budget based on 10 years of flying out of New York City from Newark (and occasionally JFK) |-----------+----------------------------| | Time (hr) | Activity | |-----------+----------------------------| | 1 | Drive to airport | | 0.5 | Find p…

> What about my post made you think it was unworthy or inappropriate to the discussion?

The numbers are high enough that some people (not me) may be downvoting you because they think you're exaggerating.

Maybe I'm lucky not dealing with flying out of new york, but I usually leave about 2hr before boarding. I expect steps to take about:

    to airport: 45min (subway, subway, shuttle)
    check luggage: 15min (usually omitted)
    security: 15min
    to gate: 15min
    wait: 30min

Individual steps can take longer, but they've not taken long enough to make me miss my flight. I just have less waiting at the end.

Re: Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why

#286

Post by steve-howard » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 9:06 PM UTC

onemoreact wrote: post #256

steve-howard wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of empty space in between the West and the East, which is where plane travel is the most compelling, and train travel would still likely not be.

There is a lot more travel North-South in the USA than there is East-West. Just look at the way the US highway system is setup. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/1926us.jp... Note: Number of lanes paints a much stronger picture, but I can't find a good map of that.

Thanks a lot for this, it's a really cool map. Note that this is just the US numbered routes, so it's pre-Interstate.

I'm quite fascinated by the interstate system; I think it's one of the more amazing things this country's managed to accomplish in the last century. I admit that I draw my sample set from just my experience -- I grew up in the SF Bay Area, go to school near Chicago, and spend summers in Seattle, so all my travel is huge E-W distances -- but I think even if you're right, you have a good argument for N-S rail systems and there's still enough E-W travel that air travel is still quite necessary.

Re: Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why

#287

Post by lucasjung » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 9:12 PM UTC

Osiris wrote: post #169

BonesLF wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost there with you. Charade is useful if it prevents a confrontation with someone who does not understand the security theater. Thus, I turn the screen off for the 3 seconds it takes the flight attendant to walk by. I've been doing this for years. A fair compromise? Silly, but effective perhaps.

I turn off my cell phone simply to save the battery power. You don't get any signal above a few thousand feet, so why not save on battery for the next few hours? Heck, sometimes I even use my laptop's USB to charge the phone in-flight so it's full when I land. I think the dumbest thing is having to turn off a Kindle. Is that even possible? Pushing the power button just goes to screensaver which uses exactly as much p…

>I think the dumbest thing is having to turn off a Kindle. Is that even possible? Pushing the power button just goes to screensaver which uses exactly as much power as when you're actually using it.

You can turn a kindle off by holding the power switch for a few seconds. I do this every time I fly, for both takeoff and landing (I leave the wireless off for the entire flight). Given how low-power a kindle is, I find it highly unlikely that it could cause interference (unless you leave the wireless on, which could definitely cause interference), but I've seen enough surprising results from Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Safety of Flight Tests (SOFT) to know that you just can't make assumptions about stuff like that.

Re: Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why

#288

Post by lucasjung » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 9:18 PM UTC

zig wrote: post #247

RockyMcNuts wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an effective way to bring down a plane. The pilot would just switch to another instrument or frequency. You could land the plane without any radios or navigation. But it would raise some pulses.

In visual conditions it would be a total non-issue - GPS/VOR/IRS guidance to the airport (or radar vectors or pilotage), with a visual landing. For an ILS approach to minimums in hard instrument conditions, it could be problematic - especially if you are off course and don't realize it. There are minimum safe altitudes on approach plates that could be violated if you are way off course (putting you into a TV tower, f…

I have heard that the airliners are generally all equipped with GPS units rated for precision approaches. I'd have to look at some approach plates to see how the mins for GPS approaches stack up to the ILS approaches for the same runways (I don't fly anything rated to use GPS for precision approaches).

Don't forget PAR, which generally has mins comperable to, if not lower than, ILS.

Re: Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why

#289

Post by Musora » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 9:56 PM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #279

Musora wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imho this is better then - Taking off shoes - Going through scanner-of-the-day - Can't take any liquids on the plane. And same procedure applies also to Israelis as well not only to visitors.

Hmm.. Hope you didn't take offense with what I wrote. I see no personal insult anywhere in that text and certainly didn't intend any. That said: - I had to remove my shoes at the Ben Gurion airport. Granted, only once so far - Agreed (scanner) - Braindead liquid rules still apply (maybe softened vs. the US? I cannot judge that) And while Israelis have to do the same thing: If I travel with a coworker (we usually arri…

No offense.

>- Braindead liquid rules still apply (maybe softened vs. the US? I cannot judge that)

I guess that it might apply more then usually when you fly to US. Flies to Europe/within Israel ok. You can buy whatever you want after security check and bring it with you.

Passport control shortcut, you probably mean electronic system. There is one like this in US for US citizens that I can't use :(

And yes, foreigners start with "Might be..." but usually it never goes beyond questions. "Luggage scan pass" Israeli might get only if they (scanners) are too loaded. In case line is short everybody goes through it. And Israelis can move to "might be" quickly in case they give "bad" answer. I once couldn't answer how old I am (I never know) and was questioned for 40minutes.

Re: Fliers Must Turn Off Devices, but It’s Not Clear Why

#290

Post by artursapek » Mon, Nov 28, 2011, 10:58 PM UTC

DaniFong wrote: post #230

artursapek wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you do your entire life is what you're confined to doing on an iPad in an airplane? It's not that huge of a loss. You're not dead for half an hour on each flight.

Haha, you make a good point. Nonetheless, flying could be an amazing experience. But fliers are some of the least happy people because they are treated either like criminas, children, or cattle. If the time isn't quite stolen, it is at least spoiled.

All I can say is to watch Louis CK's rant about how everything is amazing and nobody's happy. I fly several times a year and I honestly enjoy it. People who complain about their flying experience need thicker skin and more problems in their lives.