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Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

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Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#101

Post by kareemsabri »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #88
kareemsabri wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL and haven't read the laws of Philly but it seems pretty obvious that moving your property off a public street is not considered theft.

But if a private individual did that, surely you would consider it theft? So where's the line, why's it OK for a private company but not a private individual? If I'm self employed and registered as my own company, can I do it then?

The private company versus individual has nothing to do with it. The private company / individual is acting on behalf of the state, and the state provides itself the authority to take your property without your consent.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#102

Post by chaps »

lolinder wrote: post #30

> That’s the Philly euphemism for what is formally known as “relocation towing” — when the police department, Philadelphia Parking Authority, or a private towing company moves vehicles from legal parking spots for special events, construction or emergencies. I can see needing to move a vehicle in an emergency, but for special events and construction this shouldn't be needed in most cases. The city knows months in adv…

Cities don't necessarily know if construction is going to happen a month in advance. Plans can change, so they have windows, sometimes decently large (months) windows to do the work.

Something similar happened to me where my car was towed to the yard (law says it should've been relocated iirc) for being parked in a construction zone while I was on vacation. When I got back I didn't check on my car for a few days and when I finally went to my car, I found it was towed and that I needed to pay $800 to get my car out. Thing is -- the permits for the construction on that day were canceled. So they did construction without a permit.

So when I attempted to contest it in court, I was pulled aside by the city's legal staff and told that they were throwing out the tickets, fines, and storage fees because they... didn't have enough information on the tickets. The judge signed the release and I had my car two hours later.

It's hard to give any ounce of good faith to these systems when they do things like not tell you they're throwing the tickets out before the court date, nor do they have any semblance of automation to find those sorts of ticket gaps. For me, I was able to take a couple days off of work to do research and go to court, but that's not the case for so many people.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#103

Post by sokoloff »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #97
sokoloff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the spectrum of police behavior, this is left of zero for sure, but pretty benign and easy to understand.

After I posted my comment above, I had to calm myself because I had a spike of anxiety remembering the details of my own experiences with police aggression, and the memory takes me far away from my body into a place of distilled fear. I’m remembering more as I type this. I think the word you’re looking for is “comprehend”. I do comprehend why police act aggressively without cause or warning. I don’t think it’s benign…

I’ve been detained, pushed down onto the trunk of the cruiser, handcuffed behind my back, patted down, put in the back, backup called, investigated, and released on the scene. The cop had a fairly reasonable reason to do what they did that turned out to be based on a false premise [I "matched the description" but wasn't the guy], I complied, and 15-20 minutes of my life was wasted.

Was it awesome? Nope. Do I get that cops aren’t clairvoyant or omniscient and sometimes people get put in and then taken out of cuffs without being arrested? Yup.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#104

Post by fallingknife »

This happened to me in SF. It was pride parade day, and I parked in a perfectly legal spot. But when I came back a couple of hours later all the cars had been towed and there were a bunch of special event vehicles parked there. The cops had put up a special event no parking notice, but by law that has to be done 48 hours in advance. They didn't tow me to another spot like this, though. Just towed me to impound where I had to pay about $500 to get my car back.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#105

Post by latchkey »

I've been fighting my city over bullshit $50-$110 parking tickets that are intended to curb homeless people living in their cars. That's right, kicking people when they are down. So far, I've won 4 of the tickets and a 5th is pending the process.

The thing is that you have to pay the ticket, then fight it once (they automatically vote against you), then you appeal it, where they take a closer look at things, and then pass judgement in my favor. At times, I'm out hundreds of dollars and it takes 3-6 months for it to all resolve itself.

I'm tired of it.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#106

Post by ceejayoz »

thewebcount wrote: post #94
avn2109 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "posted signs" thing is an unimpressive solution in 2022 imho and they should really email you or text you "hey move your car please" etc. As a thought experiment, imagine that the city government was motivated to find a car's owner for some reason, perhaps as a suspect or witness of a serious crime etc. Meaning if they have your plate number and think you're a murderer, they will definitely find you and communic…

How is the city supposed to know my cell phone number or email? I don't generally give them out. I give out my landline whenever I have to give out a phone number. And heck, there are plenty of people in a big city like Philly that don't have a cell phone, too. (And yes, some of them have cars, believe it or not.) Plus cell phones break, emails get sent to spam, etc. Putting a sign up at the place where you are likel…

> How is the city supposed to know my cell phone number or email?

My email's on file with the DMV; I get emails when my plates are due for renewal. Local law enforcement likely has access to that database.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#107

Post by [deleted] »

acomjean wrote: post #84
avn2109 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "posted signs" thing is an unimpressive solution in 2022 imho and they should really email you or text you "hey move your car please" etc. As a thought experiment, imagine that the city government was motivated to find a car's owner for some reason, perhaps as a suspect or witness of a serious crime etc. Meaning if they have your plate number and think you're a murderer, they will definitely find you and communic…

In my city at least the weekly street cleaning requires you to move your car weekly. So signs posted a week ahead are typically not as bad. Though the police did once us my apartment buzzer to tell me to move my car, it didn’t always happen (I’ve been towed twice in my 2 decades in the city).. Also when they tow you it’s to a lot, they don’t just dump you on some other street like in Philly.

[deleted]

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#108

Post by [deleted] »

acomjean wrote: post #84
avn2109 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "posted signs" thing is an unimpressive solution in 2022 imho and they should really email you or text you "hey move your car please" etc. As a thought experiment, imagine that the city government was motivated to find a car's owner for some reason, perhaps as a suspect or witness of a serious crime etc. Meaning if they have your plate number and think you're a murderer, they will definitely find you and communic…

In my city at least the weekly street cleaning requires you to move your car weekly. So signs posted a week ahead are typically not as bad. Though the police did once us my apartment buzzer to tell me to move my car, it didn’t always happen (I’ve been towed twice in my 2 decades in the city).. Also when they tow you it’s to a lot, they don’t just dump you on some other street like in Philly.

[deleted]

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#109

Post by xani_ »

thewebcount wrote: post #94
avn2109 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "posted signs" thing is an unimpressive solution in 2022 imho and they should really email you or text you "hey move your car please" etc. As a thought experiment, imagine that the city government was motivated to find a car's owner for some reason, perhaps as a suspect or witness of a serious crime etc. Meaning if they have your plate number and think you're a murderer, they will definitely find you and communic…

How is the city supposed to know my cell phone number or email? I don't generally give them out. I give out my landline whenever I have to give out a phone number. And heck, there are plenty of people in a big city like Philly that don't have a cell phone, too. (And yes, some of them have cars, believe it or not.) Plus cell phones break, emails get sent to spam, etc. Putting a sign up at the place where you are likel…

Well, they have owner of car and presumably where they live, they could send a snail mail at the very least

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#110

Post by fallingknife »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #93
mjhay wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This kind of worse-than-brain-dead sh*t-show is why so many people emotionally identify with "the government is the problem", "de-fund the police", and similar slogans. Those people are right. That is not just emotional, that is rational - that is the only sane attitude towards the fact that these groups with the power of violence over society are so incompetent or even malicious.

Us people have some nuance and quite a bit of disagreement amongst ourselves. Personally I’m all in on defunding the police, but (I still feel weird saying this even after almost six years as a former anarchist) I don’t believe the government is inherently the problem, even if this particular implementation of it is obviously a problem. Another version of government could and should use its power to prevent these kin…

Prevent who from doing these abuses? I only seem to have these types of problems with the government. I have been illegally towed before. I got a letter from the IRS a few months back saying I owe another $1000 of taxes for reasons I can't understand. The letter says call a phone number if you don't understand. I have called it at least 50 times and it always gives me a recording that they can't take my call now. I will probably just have to pay. Only the government can do this to me because they are the only organization I have to obey.
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