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Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

rollingstone.com

341–350 of 407 posts

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking about the effect of a passage in the Communications Decency Act is a "meaningless question" and is tangential to the Communications Decency Act?

>Asking about the effect of a passage in the Communications Decency Act is a "meaningless question" and is tangential to the Communications Decency Act? Given the extensive case law[0] generated since the passage of the CDA, yes it is pretty meaningless. Because that case law clearly defines what those terms mean and they don't mean aggregators like Facebook. It's reasonable to question, given the moderation choices…

You're saying the answer to:

> This passage does something by preventing them from being so classified. Right?

Is no, the passage doesn't do anything (anymore)?

[EDIT] I think you think I think some stuff I don't. I don't even know what you're talking about when you claim it doesn't mean "what I think it means". You claimed the passage doesn't mean what another poster thinks it means, I asked what it does in fact mean, i.e. what would happen if the passage were absent, and then you told me that question was irrelevant (why?), and then this post, which also seems to be addressing some other person or something... but maybe is addressing what I actually asked? I can't tell.

[EDIT AGAIN] Hell, the wikipedia article you cited even seems to back up the (other poster's) interpretation you were claiming was wrong. I am so confused.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#342
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The part that's always missing from this kind of argument is: then you're wrong. You are incorrect. It's mind-boggling to me that the actual fact of what actually happened never seems to matter in this argument. Look, I understand the practical problems with a law like "It's illegal to lie on the news" -- of course that's problematic: who decides what a lie is? But if you could guarantee unambiguous, 100% accurate, o…

You were going fine until:

> There are some things that we know for 100% certain definitely happened

If anything, this is one of those things you should 100% question. Such a politicized event, almost 80 later, with most proofs being unreliable testimonies and confessions by physical force. As the saying goes, history is always written by the winners. Not saying that it didn't happen, or it was only exaggerated, or anything like that.

I'm only saying that making ILLEGAL to negate or downplay is an extremely dangerous precedent.

> If you disagree with me about it, it simply means you are an awful piece of shit.

I wouldn't care about this comment at all, if it wasn't because my question was flagged and this is not. As always, a heavily enforced voting/moderation system results in a perverted, deranged way of reality that's only perpetuated by such system.

For anyone reading this, if you want to be somewhat in touch with reality just leave this garbage forum.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US is so fragile that a box of paper is somehow key to the stability of an entire empire, we're pretty much doomed. Also your statement that "Since a majority of states at the time had Republican representation, they would have elected Trump" is laughable. It's well known that Trump asked multiple Republican governors to "find some votes" and they obviously did not do this. Even if someone is a demagogue that…

>Also your statement that "Since a majority of states at the time had Republican representation, they would have elected Trump" is laughable. Actually, it's not. The way this works (I really hope you're not an American, because if you are you really should know this) is that if the counting of electoral votes is sufficiently disputed (in this counterfactual case, the vote certificates were destroyed), deciding the ou…

Under that logic, the US was over thrown back in 2000 when the supreme court decided the outcome of an election.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#344
post #312
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are only using Facebook for its original purpose of keeping up with old friends and family, then it doesn't actually have the scaling problem: if one of your friends or someone in your family starts posting a ton of racist bullshit you either confront them about it or drop them as a friend (preferably bilaterally), and either result is actually better for society than having Facebook attempt to present a skewe…

Facebook was originally gated to just university students from specific universities, then they started to open it to everyone. It was basically a university bulletin board.

Yeah: I am actually old enough to have been waiting for Facebook to be supported at my University ;P. I remember it already spawning with the same functionality of, say, Friendster, and so it already was based on the "social network" concept of people having "walls" they posted to and the concept of "friends" that you were thereby keeping up with... which frankly isn't anything like a "bulletin board" (virtual or physical) and was much more like people posting stuff on the door of their dorm. It could be that it was a bit different, though, in the first handful of institutions before it got around to supporting mine.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Asking about the effect of a passage in the Communications Decency Act is a "meaningless question" and is tangential to the Communications Decency Act? Given the extensive case law[0] generated since the passage of the CDA, yes it is pretty meaningless. Because that case law clearly defines what those terms mean and they don't mean aggregators like Facebook. It's reasonable to question, given the moderation choices…

You're saying the answer to: > This passage does something by preventing them from being so classified. Right? Is no, the passage doesn't do anything (anymore)? [EDIT] I think you think I think some stuff I don't. I don't even know what you're talking about when you claim it doesn't mean "what I think it means". You claimed the passage doesn't mean what another poster thinks it means, I asked what it does in fact mea…

Your question:

>This passage does something by preventing them from being so classified. Right?

The relevant section (c1) of the CDA states:

   No provider or user of an interactive computer 
   service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker 
   of any information provided by another information
   content provider.
Is answered 'yes.' I was, however, responding to your other question:

>So what would it mean if Facebook were treated as the "publisher or speaker" of information they... well, publish?

And (thank you for calling me out on this, I should have been more precise. My apologies) the answer to that is, as decades of case law clearly shows, they wouldn't be. Which is why the question is somewhat meaningless since, as the law exists currently, it's irrelevant.

A better question might have been (and upon reflection, is probably the question you were asking), "should the law be changed to address the impacts of moderation by large players like Facebook?"

The law as it currently is, doesn't address those issues. Should the law (in general, not necessarily the CDA) do so?

That's a much more interesting (and relevant) question. And if that was the question you intended to ask, my apologies for misunderstanding.

Personally, I'm of two minds about that. Limiting the ability of actors to sue platforms over their hosting of other people's speech (and that's the important bit, to me at least) is, in general, a good thing.

That said, the big players' engagement-focused strategies and the algorithms that support them are certainly (to understate the issue) problematic, in that they promote outrage, groupthink and the demonization of a variety of folks in an effort to boost ad revenues. That's a bad thing.

However, If we didn't have such limitations, it would have several outcomes for most platforms (be they mailing lists, message boards/sections of websites, product review sites, etc., etc., etc.):

1. No moderation at all. Quickly turning any place for third party commentary (HN included) into a cesspit of spam, porn and other stuff superfluous to the goals of both the sites and their visitors;

2. Widespread removal of comment sections altogether and the shutdown of huge numbers of sites (likely HN as well);

3. Those with deep pockets bankrupting anyone who hosts content they don't like with lawsuit after lawsuit (The Better Business Bureau[0] comes immediately to mind).

Ironically, sites like Facebook/Twitter, etc. have deep enough pockets to fight such lawsuits, likely leaving them relatively unscathed by such a change in the law.

>[EDIT] I think you think I think some stuff I don't. I don't even know what you're talking about when you claim it doesn't mean "what I think it means".

That may well be so. And if I misunderstood (and it seems I did, I hope I addressed that above), my apologies.

>You claimed the passage doesn't mean what another poster thinks it means, I asked what it does in fact mean, i.e. what would happen if the passage were absent, and then you told me that question was irrelevant (why?), and then this post, which also seems to be addressing some other person or something... but maybe is addressing what I actually asked? I can't tell.

Nope. I was responding specifically to your comment[1], which I clearly misunderstood. I've attempted in this comment to correct myself and to respond to (at least as I understand it -- which may be just as wrong but I hope not) the question you did ask.

[0] https://www.bbb.org/

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32869002

Edit: Fixed formatting issue.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also your statement that "Since a majority of states at the time had Republican representation, they would have elected Trump" is laughable. Actually, it's not. The way this works (I really hope you're not an American, because if you are you really should know this) is that if the counting of electoral votes is sufficiently disputed (in this counterfactual case, the vote certificates were destroyed), deciding the ou…

Under that logic, the US was over thrown back in 2000 when the supreme court decided the outcome of an election.

>Under that logic, the US was over thrown back in 2000 when the supreme court decided the outcome of an election.

That's a really reductive (and, in my view, incorrect) take on the issues in Florida in 2000. It was a hot mess, and I think (IANAL, so I may well be talking out of my ass) the Supreme Court should have kicked this back to the Florida courts, but all such activity was within the bounds of the US Constitution.

The absence of the Supreme Court decision in Bush v. Gore, at least AFAIK, wouldn't have changed the outcome of the election.

I'd be interested to know what logical steps lead from what I wrote to "Bush v. Gore overthrew the US government."

Would you mind sharing that line of reasoning? Because It's not at all clear to me how you got from point a to point b. Thanks!

N.B.: I did not vote for George W. Bush in 2000 (or 2004, for that matter)

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying the answer to: > This passage does something by preventing them from being so classified. Right? Is no, the passage doesn't do anything (anymore)? [EDIT] I think you think I think some stuff I don't. I don't even know what you're talking about when you claim it doesn't mean "what I think it means". You claimed the passage doesn't mean what another poster thinks it means, I asked what it does in fact mea…

Your question: >This passage does something by preventing them from being so classified. Right? The relevant section (c1) of the CDA states: No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider. Is answered 'yes.' I was, however, responding to your other question: >So what would it mean if Facebook were…

Awesome, thanks so much, this cleared it up. Sorry this ended up requiring you to write a novel.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your question: >This passage does something by preventing them from being so classified. Right? The relevant section (c1) of the CDA states: No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider. Is answered 'yes.' I was, however, responding to your other question: >So what would it mean if Facebook were…

Awesome, thanks so much, this cleared it up. Sorry this ended up requiring you to write a novel.

>Awesome, thanks so much, this cleared it up. Sorry this ended up requiring you to write a novel.

No apologies necessary. I misunderstood you and was unclear in my response.

I'll try to do better in the future.

That said, I'm glad I was able to clarify. Although I am curious as to your (and everyone else too) take on how we might tweak the legal environment to address the issues under discussion.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the joke and I know the victors write the history books, by virtue of being alive. But they don't always make themselves look like the good guys in those history books.

> they don't always make themselves look like the good guys in those history books I think judging past history reasonably from our current perspective isn't quite so easy. From the perspective of today, virtually every human that ever lived in the past had views that could be considered some kind of racist, sexist, homophobe, religious extremist, etc even if they were very decent humans by the standards of their day…

Yes, we are mostly all meat-eating, insect-killing, pet-owning monsters.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#350
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we consider them public spaces when they are private companies? And social media companies only control what is said on their platform not "online" aka the entire internet as you said

> Why should we consider them public spaces when they are private companies? As the other commenter is suggesting a change to the status quo, what legal status they have now isn't important, but instead what matters is role they serve in society. Personally I think the US idea of freedom of speech is too anarchic to be sustainable, but even with that, the de-facto power that Big Tech has over communication (and comme…

What power do they have?
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