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Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

inquirer.com

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Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#91

Post by donretag »

This occurred to me in the 2000s in NYC. Repeated (I kept on getting "disconnected") calls to 311 always led to an operator that proceeded to victim blame me. "Are you sure you do not have parking tickets?", "Are you positive you have no parking tickets?".

There were "No Parking xxxday for repaving" that were posted in the (somewhat desolate, few residences) area after I have parked. Even after explaining this situation to the operators, they still insisted that the city must have towed my car because I did not pay my parking tickets. Three/four operators, same line. They had no idea where they towed my car. It took my father and I over an hour, splitting the streets, walking the neighborhood and finding the car.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#92

Post by macksd »

avn2109 wrote: post #76
ceejayoz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what happens in my area. Signs go up a week or so in advance saying you’ll be towed if parked there past date X.

The "posted signs" thing is an unimpressive solution in 2022 imho and they should really email you or text you "hey move your car please" etc. As a thought experiment, imagine that the city government was motivated to find a car's owner for some reason, perhaps as a suspect or witness of a serious crime etc. Meaning if they have your plate number and think you're a murderer, they will definitely find you and communic…

That said, it still seems helpful to know immediately as you're getting the space what the timeframe is for leaving. If the're going to start clearing the street in an hour, I'll probably park elsewhere right off the bat and not wait for an email.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#93

Post by eyelidlessness »

mjhay wrote: post #18
bell-cot wrote: post #15

> Problem is, the city doesn’t have a modern, reliable way to track the vehicles’ new locations, leaving owners wandering the streets for days or weeks, looking for their cars. They could do vastly better than the status quo with century-old multi-part paper form technology. "White Copy - Central PD Tow Office", "Yellow Copy - Precinct PD Tow Clerk", "Pink Copy - DMV, to mail to vehicle owner", ... This kind of worse…

> This kind of worse-than-brain-dead sh*t-show is why so many people emotionally identify with "the government is the problem", "de-fund the police", and similar slogans. Those people are right. That is not just emotional, that is rational - that is the only sane attitude towards the fact that these groups with the power of violence over society are so incompetent or even malicious.

Us people have some nuance and quite a bit of disagreement amongst ourselves. Personally I’m all in on defunding the police, but (I still feel weird saying this even after almost six years as a former anarchist) I don’t believe the government is inherently the problem, even if this particular implementation of it is obviously a problem.

Another version of government could and should use its power to prevent these kinds of abuses rather than enable and benefit from them. But that form of government would look radically different from the one we have.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#94

Post by thewebcount »

avn2109 wrote: post #76
ceejayoz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what happens in my area. Signs go up a week or so in advance saying you’ll be towed if parked there past date X.

The "posted signs" thing is an unimpressive solution in 2022 imho and they should really email you or text you "hey move your car please" etc. As a thought experiment, imagine that the city government was motivated to find a car's owner for some reason, perhaps as a suspect or witness of a serious crime etc. Meaning if they have your plate number and think you're a murderer, they will definitely find you and communic…

How is the city supposed to know my cell phone number or email? I don't generally give them out. I give out my landline whenever I have to give out a phone number. And heck, there are plenty of people in a big city like Philly that don't have a cell phone, too. (And yes, some of them have cars, believe it or not.) Plus cell phones break, emails get sent to spam, etc. Putting a sign up at the place where you are likely to do the illegal thing seems pretty sensible to me.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#95

Post by cmeacham98 »

School-Cotton wrote: post #73
cmeacham98 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Temporarily depriving somebody of their property counts, these towings are clearly theft. The actually interesting legal question revolves around who (if anybody) is liable in this situation.

Do you have a source for that? My googling suggests the opposite.

Sorry, I should have been more clear: it often isn't "theft" (or "larceny"), legally speaking, but it usually is some lesser crime under a name like "unauthorized use/borrowing" or "misappropriation".

I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that doesn't have a law that covers unauthorized use of a motor vehicle, so I can practically guarantee it is illegal.

In Philadelphia I believe the relevant statue is https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.02... - although I'm actually unsure if towing would count as "operating" here? That's a question for their lawyer.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#96

Post by hinkley »

tylermenezes wrote: post #70
lolinder wrote: post #30

> That’s the Philly euphemism for what is formally known as “relocation towing” — when the police department, Philadelphia Parking Authority, or a private towing company moves vehicles from legal parking spots for special events, construction or emergencies. I can see needing to move a vehicle in an emergency, but for special events and construction this shouldn't be needed in most cases. The city knows months in adv…

> They should plaster the neighborhood in warning notices a month before the event I grew up in Seattle but lived in Philly for 2 years and this was one of the strangest things to me. In many cases they don't post _any notices at all._ I knew enough people who got "courtesy" towed with no records that I added a GPS tracker to our car to make sure I could find it. See also: https://www.inquirer.com/news/courtesy-towin…

Seattle, for anyone who hasn't lived there, has a set of folding barricades marked 'No Parking' with a blank space to put dates and times. I believe you can even go to the city and borrow a set yourself for things like sidewalk repairs, taking down a tree, moving vans, or having a forklift show up to move something into your yard, though these seem to go out pretty close to the event whereas I saw city ones show up two weeks before something major.

From a smaller data sample, parts of Oregon also do this as well.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#97

Post by eyelidlessness »

sokoloff wrote: post #86
eyelidlessness wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading the article but before reading the comments, I thought to myself, people will defend all manner of awful things, even when they’re this clear cut . Sure wish I’d been wrong. Being forcibly detained is traumatic. Especially when you know you’re being detained wrongly. I’m speaking from experience here, and as someone who has received a settlement in a wrongful arrest suit. There’s nothing reasonable abou…

On the spectrum of police behavior, this is left of zero for sure, but pretty benign and easy to understand.

After I posted my comment above, I had to calm myself because I had a spike of anxiety remembering the details of my own experiences with police aggression, and the memory takes me far away from my body into a place of distilled fear. I’m remembering more as I type this.

I think the word you’re looking for is “comprehend”. I do comprehend why police act aggressively without cause or warning. I don’t think it’s benign. I do think you’re very fortunate not to know that.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#98

Post by crazygringo »

abeppu wrote: post #9

The article mentions two women who had each reported their cars stolen after the "courtesy" tow which makes one wonder -- _is_ this theft? If not, why? Does it matter if it's done by a private towing company?

No it can't be theft in a legal sense, since it's legal per statute. And no it doesn't matter if it's a private towing company as long as it's acting on behalf of the state (which it is/was).

But what the plaintiffs are arguing is that it's failing due process at the constitutional level, which to perhaps oversimplify means the city isn't being responsible/fair with its law.

Nobody disputes it has the right to move vehicles for legitimate reasons (which these seem to be), but obviously it ought to be able to track where it moved them to and ensure it's not leading to fines and/or damage without recompense -- which it is clearly not doing. Their lawyers know the city isn't following due process, which is why the city is offering these payouts.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#99

Post by renewiltord »

linspace wrote: post #5

> Henin was placed in handcuffs because police in New Jersey thought the car was stolen. That was because, months earlier, the car had been courtesy towed in West Philly, and she reported it stolen as police advised. Henin followed up with Philadelphia police when she later found her car, but they mistakenly left it in the stolen-vehicle database. It could be the argument for a sitcom. Not funny in real life when pol…

No post body was provided.

Re: Philly pays $30K to two 'courtesy' tow victims, but class-action suit continues

#100

Post by daveoc64 »

This is relatively common in the UK, although there are clearer requirements to put up signs in advance of restrictions being imposed.

London has a centralised system where you can check if your vehicle has been removed to a pound/relocated:

https://trace.london/

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