Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

smithsonianmag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 327 posts

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#311

Post by cafed00d »

betwixthewires wrote: post #253
cafed00d wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a dangerous precedent to set. You’re essentially egging on today’s generation to “clash back”. Colonialism isn’t the same as ancestral predator prey mechanics. Or, that we should reverse every unjust war waged in the world. Some are just blatantly brutal. Simple. We owe it to our species to recognize mistake, apologize and make repairs. Would Britain really say “it’s ridiculous. Things change. Move on” for for…

It is literally the precedent that has already been set. Colonialism is exactly the same as ancestral predator prey dynamics (whatever you mean by that). We do recognize, apologize and make repairs. This is why Africa, India and southeast Asia are all free, sovereign nations now. Repairs were made. I always find it funny that Indians venerate the moghuls and vilify the British. They were both foreign invaders that co…

Oh while we’re at it, yeah, those Iranian Crown Jewels should also be returned to Kollur.

More info: I think what you’re missing is atrocities have been committed and forgotten.

Let’s stick to the topic at hand: we’ll unravel the stack reverse chronological order.

The point here is not to somehow e redistribute all the wealth all over the world. The point is to make reparations. The kingdom of Britain squatting over India for 309 years and then leaving is not morally the right thing to do.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#312

Post by morbidious »

poulpy123 wrote: post #293
morbidious wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India has a higher GDP than UK, and a larger military power than UK, so I wouldn't say UK is as capable of adequately protecting it as India.

yeah but nobody wants to invade UK because of the british food so it's safer ther

Your national dish is absolutely delicious

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#313

Post by ceejayoz »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #308
ceejayoz wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We weren’t at war with the Japanese on December 7, 1941. Still wasn’t a terrorist attack. We can, and should, make a significant distinction between attacks on civilians and attacks on military targets.

I think the main distinction is who’s doing the attacking. If it’s a state-level attack, then it’s an act of war. If it’s just a random group of dudes, it’s terrorism. It doesn’t become not terrorism just because the target is military in nature.

Which would you consider the Taliban?

Is the Islamic State a state-level organization? How big and well organized does the state need to be?

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#314

Post by sawyna »

JamesBarney wrote: post #307
kinj28 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a thief comes to your house with a gun & a treaty paper. He gives you two options - 1) sign the treaty paper where I leave you harmless but take away all your wealth 2) kill you and your family and take away all your wealth Which option would you choose? Your heir 200 years later would stop their claim on it ? Fair deal?

Almost every treaty in history was signed with an implicit or explicit threat of violence (some economic, many physical). Every piece of land that every country owns was taken at the point of the sword at one point or another. And to answer your question no I don't think I have any right to the wealth of the great great great great grandchild of the thief. Courts would also share my view.

Yes, nobody has the claim including Britain. There's no such thing as better claim. This discussion started because people could not reach a consensus on who has the best claim. Saying that Britain has the best claim is going around in circles.

I think we are on the same page. Instead of pointing out to Britain that you must return it, one should grab it.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#315

Post by betwixthewires »

kamaal wrote: post #282
betwixthewires wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last known owners aren't sovereigns of a nation anymore. And if they wouldn't give it to the ones before them this entire discussion is a sham.

>>The last known owners aren't sovereigns of a nation anymore. India is a democracy, people's government. So your argument doesn't stand.

How does that statement address my point at all?

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#316

Post by betwixthewires »

cafed00d wrote: post #311
betwixthewires wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is literally the precedent that has already been set. Colonialism is exactly the same as ancestral predator prey dynamics (whatever you mean by that). We do recognize, apologize and make repairs. This is why Africa, India and southeast Asia are all free, sovereign nations now. Repairs were made. I always find it funny that Indians venerate the moghuls and vilify the British. They were both foreign invaders that co…

Oh while we’re at it, yeah, those Iranian Crown Jewels should also be returned to Kollur. More info: I think what you’re missing is atrocities have been committed and forgotten. Let’s stick to the topic at hand: we’ll unravel the stack reverse chronological order. The point here is not to somehow e redistribute all the wealth all over the world. The point is to make reparations. The kingdom of Britain squatting over…

I think leaving it was the morally right thing to do, and in light of the way the world was before and the way it changed for the better away from colonialism, it was the only right thing to do.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#317

Post by ashwagary »

nradov wrote: post #309
ashwagary wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very cut and dry and simpler than you are making it seem. Return the stolen items to the Indian government and let the domestic courts decide based on cases claimants put forth.

According to the article it's not that simple. The governments of Pakistan and Afghanistan also claim ownership. Why should the Indian domestic courts decide whether it stays in India or goes to one of those other countries?

Indian courts are better than the people that stole it deciding, the alternative is giving the Brits an excuse to keep it for a 100 years.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#319

Post by dmz73 »

alephnerd wrote: post #3

Not a fan of the British crown (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) but who should they return the diamond to - Afghanistan (it was the Durranis that looted it from Nader Shah after he looted it from the Mughals), India (Maharaja Ranjit Singh took it as tribute from Shah Shuja after conquering Kashmir from the Durranis), or Pakistan (the Sikh Empire capital was Lahore and the Durrani Empire c…

I think the rule should be: if the entity claiming the item obtained it through conquest originally, they don't get it back. If the item was created or purchased by the entity, they should get it back.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#320

Post by CogitoCogito »

ashwagary wrote: post #317
nradov wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article it's not that simple. The governments of Pakistan and Afghanistan also claim ownership. Why should the Indian domestic courts decide whether it stays in India or goes to one of those other countries?

Indian courts are better than the people that stole it deciding, the alternative is giving the Brits an excuse to keep it for a 100 years.

Why would Indian courts be appropriate if (as /u/alephnerd write here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32860918 ) Pakistan and Afghanistan are potential claimants as well? Why not send it to Pakistan or Afghanistan and let one of their court systems decide?
Post reply on HN