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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#401

Post by mindslight »

pearjuice wrote: post #57
jliptzin wrote: post #45

This happened to me in 2016 crossing into Canada. Borders agents took my phone for no reason, demand I give them the password to unlock it (otherwise they would seize the phone), took it in the back for 45 min before returning it and letting me enter. I think it’s obvious they took all my data. So now when I travel I just bring my “travel” phone with no sensitive data on it.

45 minutes of unsupervised access to your phone? Even if it's a "travel" phone I wouldn't connect it to any other device after that.

Another reason right to repair is so damn important. If all of a device's memory were thoroughly documented, then this type of attack would require hardware modification, making it more expensive and easier to detect. And if hardware revisions were documented, the community could do things like document visual changes to circuit boards for automated visual comparison. Whereas with the current state of hostile code like ME/PSP, I can imagine a (larger) backdoor being created merely as a side effect of a "search".

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#402

Post by Grimburger »

dc-programmer wrote: post #273
marcosdumay wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you on the illusion that they didn't have your biometric data? Or that they didn't have the passenger list with your name in it? Those two are pretty transparent (and honestly, not a big deal).

Does biometric here mean your passport photo? I totally believe this is the official name, but the nomenclature definitely opens up the possibility of concept creep so that biometric data can mean anything from the mundane to the terrifying

> Does biometric here mean your passport photo?

Yes, in my country it also is updated with the most recent driver license photos.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#403

Post by pessimizer »

MrDresden wrote: post #264

As a European I find it strange how the article and many comments here seem to focus only on it being US citizen's data being hovered up by the boarder control. No one's private data should be taken without a legitimate cause, no matter their nationality.

You have to reset your perspective to a US one that believes that US laws only protect US citizens, and even those protections stop 100 miles from the border.

It not at all evident that it is illegal for the US to summarily execute US citizens without trial if they are outside of US borders. The data protections of Europeans are without question non-existent. Europe would be upset if we did it anyway, since Europe depends on us to bypass its own domestic spying restrictions.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#404

Post by throwawayacc2 »

toss1 wrote: post #377
tristor wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less about the difference between these groups and more about the response to these groups. It is your politics showing in your response rather than the person you are replying to... do you think they don't believe that Islamic terrorists exist (which they mentioned)? At no point in the history of the government national security apparatus has the target and its veracity made any difference in the trend line of…

Your argument, and that of many others here, seems to be that any govt surveillance is illegitimate, and that govt cannot have any legitimate reason to capture information on anyone. There couldn't be any actual reason for intelligence operations. "It is your politics showing". Any such view is hopelessly ignorant and naive, yet it pops up here often. The person to whom I'm replying is blatantly implying that it is n…

> If you want to do that, we might as well simply declare anarchy, and let everyone deal with the criminals and warlords who will take over, and that's no exaggeration.

Bruv …

Honestly I can’t tell if you’re for real or no. You already did that! California. People robbing stores in broad daylight, nothing happens to them. Chicago. Do I need to say anything about that third world enclave? Bloody hell man, chaz. A literal warlord took over!

What are you doing to yourselves? Snap out of it America!

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#405

Post by scintill76 »

arkadiyt wrote: post #270

Reminder for the folks using iPhones, you can prevent law enforcement from doing this by "pair locking" your device: https://arkadiyt.com/2019/10/07/pair-locking-your-iphone-wit...

iPhone users are pretty safe even without supervision and the special profile, right? Don't they have to authenticate (passcode) to allow a forensics tool to connect? Still, I appreciate the idea to put up another barrier.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#406

Post by trasz »

refurb wrote: post #153
trasz wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is searching your phone on UK border. It’s pretty much unheard of in this part of the world.

https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/15/4524208/uk-border-police-... Police in the UK have the power to seize mobile devices from any traveler entering the country, and can retain their personal data for as long as they see fit, according to a report from the Telegraph.

They might have the power to, but they don't exercise it[1]. Also, this is about phone as in physical device; it doesn't grant them the right to access the (encrypted) data, does it?

1. Fun fact: the Queen has the power to execute anyone at will.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#407

Post by arkadiyt »

scintill76 wrote: post #405
arkadiyt wrote: post #270

Reminder for the folks using iPhones, you can prevent law enforcement from doing this by "pair locking" your device: https://arkadiyt.com/2019/10/07/pair-locking-your-iphone-wit...

iPhone users are pretty safe even without supervision and the special profile, right? Don't they have to authenticate (passcode) to allow a forensics tool to connect? Still, I appreciate the idea to put up another barrier.

The premise of the article is that you are forced to unlock by law enforcement

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#408

Post by yosito »

formerly_proven wrote: post #386
macrolime wrote: post #227

Even if you are a person who will never in your life end up as any kind of person of interest for the government, handing over data in this way could still be quite dangerous. Phones will often contain data that can facilitate theft and fraud if ending up in the wrong hands. If they're able to copy everything, including private data from all apps that could be quite bad. For example many countries now use apps to log…

> Even if you are a person who will never in your life end up as any kind of person of interest for the government Literally no way to ensure that.

The chances of becoming a person of interest will always be non-zero, but I think I a lot of people can be reasonably confident that they are not likely to become a person of interest.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#409

Post by jrockway »

bornfreddy wrote: post #393
jrockway wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were any of the companies listed on the PRISM slide consensual partners? My understanding is that the NSA tapped the internal network in an era where mTLS wasn't rolled out. Everyone then saw the slides and rolled out mTLS.

I'm quite sure NSA had at least one backup plan, provably more. It is also impossible to know how much of Apple's stance is just for show.

Sure. I would think that the NSA had plenty of insiders. So do other security agencies, probably. Background checks aren't that thorough against a state-level adversary. (This is one reason why big companies can't trust insiders. I guess small companies should be cautious as well, but sometimes you don't have the funding to protect against insiders and still do your actual work.)

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#410

Post by notch656a »

JohnFen wrote: post #365
notch656a wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oh you have no phone and nothing to search? There must be drugs up your asshole" My true story as a US citizen re-entering America. Enjoy!

There are (still) lots of US citizens who don't own a cellphone and so couldn't produce one. Are all of those subject to a cavity search? If that were common, I'd think I'd heard of it by now. In any case, if the choice is between having a copy of the contents of my phone made, or being detained and cavity-searched, I'll take the detention and cavity search.

>In any case, if the choice is between having a copy of the contents of my phone made, or being detained and cavity-searched, I'll take the detention and cavity search.

Obviously I would too, but if you haven't experienced this kind of detention I think you'll find people such as ourselves who would rather this than that are rare. And don't forget, once you're on the shit-list they will mark you on their computer and make you experience hell _for life_ everytime you enter the US. Ask me how I know. Ready to exercise some privacy today? Great, hope 30 years down the road when you want to take the grandkids to Cabo you're ready for the whole party to get the Pablo Escabar lock-up experience. Want to get quick lunch across the border? Hope you informed your boss you may not be back to work tomorrow.

I've effectively lost for life the ability most Americans have to have any expectation whatsoever they may be able to clear customs in a matter of hours. I have to plan to be in complete incommunicado from my family for 24 hours from the time I hit the border. I have to plan that most likely I'll be tossed in a cold cell, and perhaps get more Emergency Room bills after agents take me to doctors against my will. I have to prepare for the lawsuits that may come from any unpaid medical bills for medical service I never asked for and for which I was brought involuntarily (cuffed and shackled), which CBP officers have weaponized. I have to plan on never scheduling a flight back home the same day I enter the US, because most likely I'm going to miss it.

>Are all of those subject to a cavity search? If that were common, I'd think I'd heard of it by now.

Yes it's extremely common. Holy Cross Hospital in Nogalez, AZ has a steady stream of traffic bringing 'patients' in to be inspected in this manner and there are lawsuits for forceful penetration of women without a warrant as part of this practice as well. While the agents detained me they told me many many stories of others put through this treatment.

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