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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#281

Post by thingification »

tarunupaday wrote: post #242

This (and similar issues) is the main reason that I donate a non-trivial (10%) part of my earnings to ACLU (and 2 other) organization. Our rights and freedoms do not come without struggle. And they sure do not last without somebody constantly defending them. And it’s only bravado to assume that we can stand against the might of federal agents as individuals without dedicated organizations fighting for us. Please dona…

Not claiming that ACLU does nothing useful -- I certainly don't know enough to say -- but what do you think about this (which suggests to me a damaged commitment to civil liberties):

https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/01/30/the-aclu-reverses-...

What other organisations do you donate to along the same lines?

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#282

Post by Arrath »

pearjuice wrote: post #57
jliptzin wrote: post #45

This happened to me in 2016 crossing into Canada. Borders agents took my phone for no reason, demand I give them the password to unlock it (otherwise they would seize the phone), took it in the back for 45 min before returning it and letting me enter. I think it’s obvious they took all my data. So now when I travel I just bring my “travel” phone with no sensitive data on it.

45 minutes of unsupervised access to your phone? Even if it's a "travel" phone I wouldn't connect it to any other device after that.

I like to share an anecdote that at a professional conference, some agents from the ATF came to give a presentation regarding updated regulations and found that their laptop couldn't connect to the projector.

No biggie, I had just finished my presentation and offered to let them use my laptop. The moment they plugged in the thumb drive with their presentation, my virus scanner went apeshit about something on that drive.

I kept that laptop disconnected for the rest of that trip, and nuked it once I was back home.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#283

Post by MichaelCollins »

Bakary wrote: post #125
unethical_ban wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the fuck? Are you saying I would get denied entry to a country if I brought no phone or a new phone?

In some countries and contexts this is a possibility. It's not uncommon for countries to have a system where you essentially have to convince a human border guard that you are no threat with no clear guidelines. Having no phone or a phone with not enough data can be a problem in such a context. The vast majority of border crossings across the world don't involve any questions about phones anyway, but if you are at th…

> It's not uncommon for countries to have a system where you essentially have to convince a human border guard that you are no threat with no clear guidelines.

Canada is like this. I traveled to Canada with my father a few years ago. When we crossed the border I was driving; they asked both of us if we had any guns in the car. The answer was no and they were obviously free to search the car if they doubted that. But then they started grilling my dad about which guns he had at home, 500 miles away. How many shotguns do you own? What models? How many rifles do you own? Which models? How long have you owned these guns? What do you use them for?

They didn't ask me any of that though. I was 35, I could have owned as many guns as he did, but I didn't and they seemed to know that already. I assume their system had access to some sort of database that flagged my father as a probable gun owner but not me. And the young border guard seemed intent to ask him invasive and utterly irrelevant questions to 'punish' him for this. I think the border guard was acting on individual initiative, because a few weeks later we entered Canada a second time and the border guards didn't even ask if we had guns in the car.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#285

Post by awofford »

tarunupaday wrote: post #242

This (and similar issues) is the main reason that I donate a non-trivial (10%) part of my earnings to ACLU (and 2 other) organization. Our rights and freedoms do not come without struggle. And they sure do not last without somebody constantly defending them. And it’s only bravado to assume that we can stand against the might of federal agents as individuals without dedicated organizations fighting for us. Please dona…

ACLU is a shadow of what it once was. Their unprincipled wavering on free speech ensures that I will not be donating to them. I would, however, love some new recommendations for where those donations can go.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#286

Post by tenpies »

philliphaydon wrote: post #205
boring_twenties wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They took my laptop in the back for just 30 minutes or so, after which I refused to accept it back from them or even touch it, which took another 2 hours or so. Eventually they agreed to dispose of it themselves.

Did you get reimbursed?

Wonder if you could make a case with travel insurance. After all the device was technically stolen from you, under threat of violence.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#288

Post by lisper »

MockObject wrote: post #226
lisper wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was specifically asking if there are examples of people being killed by police for refusing a search without a warrant No, you weren't. You asked: "Can you cite any examples of *this* happening? I’m a pretty big policing reform person and follow this stuff closely and can’t think of a single case *like this*." [Emphasis added] The semantics of that question turn entirely on the antecedent of "this", which is pret…

No, it was clear that he was asking about >>> you also may say "no" >> people have been killed by law enforcement for doing what you are suggesting. > Can you cite any examples of this happening? and not George Floyd.

It seems clear when you selectively edit the transcript the way you did. But add a little more context:

> Right, same as a police officer who asks if they can "look around" or "ask a few questions". ...But in general you'd be a fool to do so, and you also may say "no"

and it becomes a lot less clear.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#289

Post by marcosdumay »

dc-programmer wrote: post #273
marcosdumay wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you on the illusion that they didn't have your biometric data? Or that they didn't have the passenger list with your name in it? Those two are pretty transparent (and honestly, not a big deal).

Does biometric here mean your passport photo? I totally believe this is the official name, but the nomenclature definitely opens up the possibility of concept creep so that biometric data can mean anything from the mundane to the terrifying

A set of high quality photos, from a few different angles, a set of fingerprints, and quite possibly a sample of your writing gait. Also, very likely, some measurement of your height.

Those are pretty standard for most countries.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#290

Post by randomdata »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #39

Terrifying for only 2 reasons: 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. 2. USGOV has a spotty track record of keeping this information secure. A foreign actor is likely to access this info eventually. As one former…

> This is the problem when a non-technical generation makes the rules and regs.

The millennials hold the power these days. If you consider them non-technical, I'm not sure there will ever be a technical generation...

Which may be a fair assertion as I work with a lot of people in the tech industry who wouldn't even consider the issues you raise unless it was handed to them on a silver platter. If actual tech people aren't considering it, those who have other focuses in life certainly won't be.

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