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60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

theprint.in

181–190 of 309 posts

Re: 60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

#181
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong. You are saying, this is so established that entertaining any alternative is wrongheaded. No. That's not how it works. We need dissent even in the middle of battle. We need to re-asses and continuously examine what we hold true to ensure it is still true. People are not gods. We can be in the wrong. This echoes GWBushe's you're either with us, or you're against us. It's a made up dichotomy.

Speaking of made-up dichotomies, surely there's some option in between "news shows should constantly debate X vs Y" and "X is so established that entertaining any alternative is wrongheaded".

Yeah, I think there is. Usually you could find them by looking at third parties that did not have much stake in either alternative.

For example, the southern border. You have OpenBorders vs Close the border camps. But there has always been the guest worker visa program on the hoper but no one wants it. It would drive business costs up, it would drain the Ds and Rs of energy around that topic. If you look at many LatAM countries, they themselves implement controls so that locals have preferences for jobs even with respect to immigrants legally able to work. But CNN never mentions those aspects. CNN doesn't mention Bernie used to vote against having foreigners compete against the local workforce for jobs.

Or abortion vs Abortion bans. Let's look at the rest of the world, and if not the whole world, then Europe, and we see there a mixture with some consensus around some figures. But we don't get that coverage, it's all outrage one way or the other.

Re: 60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

#182
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one side is the obvious aggressor completely in the wrong If your model of any political situation resembles a moralizing children's cartoon, 99% chance you are a mark, incapable of identifying propaganda. > it's rotting people's ability to actually figure out what the right side of an issue is 99.9% of issues in the population of issues we ever think about do not have a clear right answer, because if they did we w…

Okay, so what is your take on the issues GP identified? Or is the only conclusion you can arrive at "it's complicated"? GP made the very salient point that some things are clearly bad . Blind clinging to the idea that everything has two sides is just as simplistic as thinking everything can be viewed from a perspective which is just as moral as every other. Except maybe even more so, because at least the moral simpli…

"The west probably could have avoided (or maybe just delayed) this war if they had taken steps X" is some the nuance you could add to your statements.

Simple example of X would be stating Ukraine was never going to be part of NATO.

More complicated example would be if Europe prioritized energy independence from Russia putting in a weaker position. An example that loops in nuclear power debate, one which likely could have been manipulated (see other threads around Reddit bots in addition to twitter bots) by the Russians themselves to achieve that end.

--

Russian being the bad guy doesn't make conflict inevitable. And if it does, then we're probably just buying time until full scale nuclear war within the next century and none of this actually matters.

Re: 60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

#183
post #35

i've stopped following this war/conflict because the amount of bs stemming from both sides is unparalleled from other stuff i've seen historically. i legitimately can't tell what is made up/staged/propaganda from actual facts, and i am guessing i will never know. some of it is very blatant. twitter is filled with bots, and deceit is everywhere. not surprised at all reading this fyi -- i was born in ukraine and i can…

The other side is pure evil, not even human, they shouldn't be allowed anything, in fact, the world would be better without them! Business, politics, relationships gone south. Everyone seems to think this is an acceptable way to frame the other side. I know rage drives clicks, but man is it killing our future. The news really is destroying the world.

amen

Re: 60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

#184
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... umm you say that like the CIA helping defend freedom and democracy in allied countries is a bad thing...?

You say that like U.S. does have a patent or exclusive right to spread and defend freedom and democracy ®. And CIA is helping U.S. to become more powerful firstly, all this freedom[1] and democracy ® BS is just propaganda. [1] https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=molecules+of+freedom&ia=web

You're also leaving out Ukraine asked us for help. Yea, the U.S. does in fact have the RIGHT & moral obligation to help a fellow democracy and ally when they ask for help defeating an invading dictatorship.

Edit: Oh of course a Russian would be upset that the U.S. is helping Ukraine repel their invasion.

Re: 60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right wing "ultranationalist" party Svoboda (In electoral alliance with National Corps, Right Sector, Ukrainian Volunteer Army (Azov), Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, and Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists) managed to get 2.15% of the votes at the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election. It's pretty difficult for me to see how Ukraine can be "overrun with explicitly neo nazi groups" with that amount of supp…

> Unless of course you live in Russia's fantasy world where a Jewish president can be a neo-nazi Without arguing about the rest of the comment, Russian narrative sees Nazis as a group that want to exterminate Russians, based on what actual Nazis in WW2 did when they attacked. And this "Jewish president" who banned Russian language, banned almost all political parties and organizations of russian-speaking people and s…

> who banned Russian language

That's an invention by Sergey Lavrov. Of course Ukraine didn't ban the native language of 30% of it's population.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jun/08/sergey-lav...

> banned almost all political parties and organizations of russian-speaking people

Ukraine did in fact ban pro-Russian parties. While I must admit I don't particularly like the idea of banning any parties in a democracy, it is understandable why you would ban parties and organizations supporting the enemy while you are at war.

This is, however, a long shot from the claim the he banned almost all political parties and organizations of russian-speaking people.

Re: 60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alleged Russian bot here, I was torn apart in a thread about the European energy crisis for attempting a balanced perspective. It's sad to see, but not really worth the time trying to fight against it. The vast majority of folk seem actively happy to be misinformed, so long as that misinformation is consensus among their social circles. Better to use the information as some kind of indicator of the demographic you ar…

Don't let it get you down. I was recently banned from a subreddit after one (neutral) comment for being a white supremacist. If I'm a white supremacist, I'd hate to find out what actual white supremacists are. I messaged the mods asking which rule I'd broken (because I hadn't broken one). They responded by muting me for 28 days. Forget it Jake, it's Reddit-town.

> I was recently banned from a subreddit after one (neutral) comment for being a white supremacist.

I'm curious what you said. There is lots and lots of actual-neo-nazi recruitment material/copypasta out there that is deliberately written to sound "neutral." I can maybe see that if you accidentally drifted to close to that then you could get caught in the crossfire.

Re: 60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the story is long. Yes, there are many Russians in Ukraine, especially in the East. Yes, there were some alt-right people in Ukraine, too. No, none of these justifies starting a full-scale war, killing thousands of people.

I think the point he was making is it's tough to pinpoint who start the war, considering ukraine has been a pretty intense proxy battlefield for almost a decade and beyond

Still fairly easy tbh. Ukraine didn't invade Russia in 2014 either...

Re: 60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so what is your take on the issues GP identified? Or is the only conclusion you can arrive at "it's complicated"? GP made the very salient point that some things are clearly bad . Blind clinging to the idea that everything has two sides is just as simplistic as thinking everything can be viewed from a perspective which is just as moral as every other. Except maybe even more so, because at least the moral simpli…

"The west probably could have avoided (or maybe just delayed) this war if they had taken steps X" is some the nuance you could add to your statements. Simple example of X would be stating Ukraine was never going to be part of NATO. More complicated example would be if Europe prioritized energy independence from Russia putting in a weaker position. An example that loops in nuclear power debate, one which likely could…

I agree with all of this. The US and EU kept discussing inviting Ukraine to NATO or even the EU, and the US was pushing towards a military alliance with Ukraine. This would've caused tension even if Russia was a democratic country not run by Putin. With Putin it led to near certainty of a conflict with Ukraine.

But while it's worth looking backward at that to try to get our leaders to not pull political moves like that in the future, it in no way changes the Ukrainians being on the right side of this war, and Russia being on the wrong side. Yes, the US's actions were likely to cause a war, no, Russia is not justified in starting that war. In the same way that European appeasement of Hitler and USSR's neutrality deal clearly led to the Nazis invading Europe, but do not in any way justify the Nazis invading Europe, or the Nazis being the right side.

Re: 60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

#189

Recently, I've realized I'm talking with a more bots here on HN. I'll read a weird reply to someones comment shaming them and praising China/Russia/etc..., look at the poster, and realize their account was just created and often gets flagged and taken down. HN is an ideal place to hit the minds of very influential people. Reddit is the place to hit very influenceable people.

The HN crowd is just too small to be worth the manipulation. This is still really the thing that shields this space. In the grand scheme of things, why would be the crowd of engineers and middle managers more important than any other demographic.

Re: 60-80% of Tweeters posting on Russia-Ukraine war are bots, 90% pro Ukraine

#190

I read the article. The headline is awful. For example: > The most commonly-used bot type both by pro-Ukraine and pro-Russia sides is the “self-declared bots — accounts that are transparent about being bots Quite honestly, I refuse to deal with anyone who is a Russian apologist. There is presently no better example of Good vs Evil in the world than Ukraine vs Russia.

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