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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#261

Post by nostrademons »

woodruffw wrote: post #115
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #39

Terrifying for only 2 reasons: 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. 2. USGOV has a spotty track record of keeping this information secure. A foreign actor is likely to access this info eventually. As one former…

> 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. This isn't even remotely true. See for example the recent Anom honeypot[1]. Criminals do more or less the same things that ordinary citizens do, and often have strictly wo…

Criminals who get caught do more or less the same things that ordinary citizens do, because the systems setup to catch them assume they'll act like a normal person, because you catch the greatest number of criminals that way. By definition, we have no information about what criminals who don't get caught do, because they're never identified as criminals. That's the point.

Selection bias is the most powerful force in the universe.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#262

Post by Havoc »

Grimburger wrote: post #222
Havoc wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm still waiting for someone to explain how that works with employer gear. I'm guessing my corporate compliance team will not be pleased if I tell them someone made copies of all the companies data...even if it is uncle sam. Like what does one do in that situation? Can't really agree. At the same time US border staff is not known for their understanding nature when it comes to saying no.

Revoke keys and inform the person responsible for compliance. There's not much more you can do in that situation.

>There's not much more you can do in that situation.

Indeed - and yet that is an entirely unworkable situation. e.g. The stuff on my laptop is covered by three countries' regulators/boards of directors/jurisdictions, none of whom will be understanding if I tell them the border stasi copied all the data ably assisted by yours truly with decryption keys

Very much doubt I'd still be employed even if innocent & had no choice

>Revoke keys

With financial data once its been duplicated it's gone / out in the wild.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#264

Post by MrDresden »

As a European I find it strange how the article and many comments here seem to focus only on it being US citizen's data being hovered up by the boarder control.

No one's private data should be taken without a legitimate cause, no matter their nationality.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#265

Post by marcosdumay »

browningstreet wrote: post #207

On my last trip back from Europe in June, when I re-entered the US, US Customs & Border Control didn't ask for my passport. No one did. They did wave a webcam connected to a computer in front of my face, and then a moment later, called out my name and said I could enter. Same with everyone coming through the international border area. I think that's just as weird a development and worthy of "WTH?" as this topic.

Were you on the illusion that they didn't have your biometric data? Or that they didn't have the passenger list with your name in it? Those two are pretty transparent (and honestly, not a big deal).

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#266

Post by bushbaba »

hutzlibu wrote: post #248
roenxi wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although grandparent's logic is faulty, I think it does go to an important point. They don't need 15 years warrantless storage of phone data. On anyone, including foreigners. If it takes them 15 years to realise they shouldn't have let someone over the border it is around 14 to 14.995 years too late. The powers these agencies have is far in excesses of what they need to do their jobs, and it is going to be abused. Th…

"If it takes them 15 years to realise they shouldn't have let someone over the border it is around 14 to 14.995 years too late." Well, hypothetically some old data could be combined with some new data, to not let a potentially terrorist in NOW (or let them in, but supervised). So more data to have is definitely useful for the agencies (if they can analyse it and do not drown in data). And a total surveillance state w…

I just wish government agencies used data driven decision making vs feelings and intuition more of the time.

If there’s data showing a 15 year retention rate is worthwhile. Great. But I have nothing in front of me which states this objectively

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#267

Post by adra »

hutzlibu wrote: post #248
roenxi wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although grandparent's logic is faulty, I think it does go to an important point. They don't need 15 years warrantless storage of phone data. On anyone, including foreigners. If it takes them 15 years to realise they shouldn't have let someone over the border it is around 14 to 14.995 years too late. The powers these agencies have is far in excesses of what they need to do their jobs, and it is going to be abused. Th…

"If it takes them 15 years to realise they shouldn't have let someone over the border it is around 14 to 14.995 years too late." Well, hypothetically some old data could be combined with some new data, to not let a potentially terrorist in NOW (or let them in, but supervised). So more data to have is definitely useful for the agencies (if they can analyse it and do not drown in data). And a total surveillance state w…

If a group had infinite budgets to actually act on this data effectively and if you could actually ever prove that this data was used for said purpose, you're still violating the privacy of 99.999999 of the people who don't commit crimes. I'm all for collecting legitimate warranted wide access information about people with legitimate patterns of criminal behaviour. I'm all about collecting information about financial transactions as one form or another the proceeds of crime are traded into legitimacy in regulated channels (at least for now). I'm not ok collecting "whatever I feel like" for the reason "well because we legally can".

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#268

Post by marcus0x62 »

vdqtp3 wrote: post #121
gambiting wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. It's the old rule known to governments all over the world - there is no such thing as an innocent citizen, there is only a citizen who you haven't investigated enough. Call me cynical but storing ALL of your digital data allows the agencies to basically find something, anything, that will allow them to further blackmail you into complying. E…

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." Cardinal Richelieu

Lavrentiy Beria didn’t even need six lines - “show me the man, and I’ll find you the crime.”

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#269

Post by nopenopenopeno »

macrolime wrote: post #227

Even if you are a person who will never in your life end up as any kind of person of interest for the government, handing over data in this way could still be quite dangerous. Phones will often contain data that can facilitate theft and fraud if ending up in the wrong hands. If they're able to copy everything, including private data from all apps that could be quite bad. For example many countries now use apps to log…

It always blows my mind that the same people who insist they don’t trust the government are the first in line to hand over all their personal data to the government, whether by way of Google, Facebook, or otherwise.
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