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CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

cpsc.gov

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Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#201

Post by sokoloff »

kube-system wrote: post #171
NotYourLawyer wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I’ve never tried it out, but I assumed that an RCD / GFCI would trip more or less instantaneously. I’m kind of surprised you felt much of anything.

It is also important to note that ground fault devices only trip when there is a fault to ground . If your body becomes a conductor between live and neutral, you can draw up to the current limit for that branch circuit.

For the timeframe relevant to your body, you can draw several multiples of the circuit limit for the branch circuit. (A breaker will typically pass around 3x its label rating for 3 seconds or more before tripping.) The resistance of your body would be the limit here rather than the breaker typically.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#202

Post by bluGill »

sokoloff wrote: post #130
hedora wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it is installed properly, that is just as dangerous as the cord in the article, as long as you remember the "plug generator in last" rule. In particular, both can kill hapless power company employees by unexpectedly backfeeding into downed parts of the grid, and they have similar carbon monoxide/fire hazard issues. (Not that there is anything wrong with the product; I wish they were mandatory, so they'd reliab…

I don't know what percentage of electrical work is inspected, but I would certainly not characterize it as "reliably". There are aisles full of electrical equipment sold at Home Depot and Lowes. The (vast?) majority of that is getting installed with no inspections.

My local code allows me to replace outlets without any permit/inspection. With toddlers around I've replaced a lot of outlets with modern safety outlets (have a shutter so you can't stick something in the hot slot).

I've done other electric work that has passed inspection.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#203

Post by kube-system »

mrweasel wrote: post #195
kube-system wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is that authority. The purpose of the warning is for people who have already purchased it. And because the CPSC is likely aware that Amazon Marketplace listings are akin to playing whack-a-mole with overseas drop shippers.

Okay, that makes more sense. Still a little weird that they can request that Amazon remove these items or face fines, regardless of it being a drop shipper.

The CPSC has the authority to prohibit unsafe items from being offered for sale, regardless of who actually puts it in the mail.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#204

Post by morpheuskafka »

Scoundreller wrote: post #68
stefan_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is the magic law blanket. They take the payment, they store the goods, they ship the wares.. but it's WAGANFU brand that they have no serviceable address for that is responsible?

Gotta love limited liability! I believe American Express was one of the last public companies to convert from unlimited liability to limited.

That's not what limited liability means. It's about the owners/investors/shareholders of the company not being personally liable for debts (court judgements or loan payments) in excess of the company's assets.

Without it, simply holding stock in a company could theoretically expose someone to unlimited losses if the company had more liabilities than assets for whatever reason.

A history of the application of limited liability to corporations: https://www.bus.umich.edu/KresgeLibrary/resources/abla/abld_....

The term "limited liability company" was created much more recently to as a sort of corporation-lite entity that had this essential attribute without all the other corporate formalities. The tax laws decided to treat LLCs as non-corporations unless the elected otherwise, removing one of the major costs of having the liability protection.

Partnerships, the default/unorganized form of joint business ventures, do not have liability protection. Later, limited partnerships were created that did, but limited partners could not participate in everyday business. Thus, the corporation and later LLC were the only forms that allowed managing investors to protect themselves from excess business liability.

This has nothing to do with whether or not Amazon is liable for products third parties sell on their site.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#205

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

xani_ wrote: post #181
gwbas1c wrote: post #94

Plugging things in that SHOULD NOT be plugged in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L08LjkN1k70 In the video, the guy made once of those cords and uses it to electrocute all different kinds of things.

ElectroBOOM made his whole career on videos like that. Still can't watch him, I get anxious

Really? I mean, it's all staged/planned. In his earlier videos, like the electric guitar one, even the spark is fake and edited in.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#206

Post by bluGill »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #148
hajile wrote: post #89

It's not mentioned, but this is DEADLY for innocent linemen too. They check the line before working and it's dead. They start work and some idiot without a proper transfer switch backfeeds through the transformer hitting them with 14k volts.

How often does this actually happen? I would hope that almost anyone using one of these have the sense to turn off their main breaker.

It doesn't happen very often because odds are you also connected your neighbors and they are drawing enough power to trip one of your breakers.

It does happen though, which is why linemen normally short out any wire they think should be dead before working on it. (or they apply working on live wires rules for wires they think are dead)

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#207

Post by donmcronald »

hedora wrote: post #145

The correct solution here is for the courts to treat Amazon like a retailer. If your local hardware store sells you one of these, then they (assuming the manufacturer cannot be found) assume liability for whatever damage it does.

Exactly.

You order it from Amazon, you pay Amazon, it's shipped in an Amazon box, and arrives on an Amazon truck, but they aren't liable for anything because you didn't buy it from Amazon.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#208

Post by bombcar »

refracture wrote: post #104
elzbardico wrote: post #27

How can folks not see that using such contraption is obviously a shitty idea? That’s why we need to completely overhaul the teaching of physics in middle and high school. Every citizen should have at least a basic understanding of basic physical concepts that allow then to understand why this kind of thing is a bad idea

When I was a small child with endless un-jaded curiosity and no fear I once took a pair of cutters to a power cable plugged into a live 120v US outlet; it made an incredibly bright arc that I could see the afterimage of in my vision for several minutes and a deafeningly loud pop (In retrospect may have been the first stage of my tinnitus). For years growing up I would look at the replacement power cable for that elec…

For a very few milliseconds you were an electrician - they don’t call them Sparky for nothing, after all.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#209

Post by kube-system »

sokoloff wrote: post #201
kube-system wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also important to note that ground fault devices only trip when there is a fault to ground . If your body becomes a conductor between live and neutral, you can draw up to the current limit for that branch circuit.

For the timeframe relevant to your body, you can draw several multiples of the circuit limit for the branch circuit. (A breaker will typically pass around 3x its label rating for 3 seconds or more before tripping.) The resistance of your body would be the limit here rather than the breaker typically.

Very true, not that 15a vs 45a would potentially be of any difference to the person being shocked. If anyone is low enough resistance to draw anywhere approaching either of those currents, they no longer care, as they are long dead.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#210

Post by bluGill »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #34
zibby8 wrote: post #8

Back feeding seems insane. Most residential circuits are rated for 15A. A 5000 watt generator can produce over 40 amps at 120V. Seems like a good way to start an electrical fire.

Isn't it more common to use a dryer outlet with a 240v input?

I'm not sure what is most common. Most people with a generator are only wanting to run the fridge, furnace and a couple pumps, all this can be arranged to run from a single 120v phase, and finding a 120v outlet one the right phase near the generator is easy enough. In particular no need to move the dryer when doing this. However larger generators have 240v and it is easy enough to plug them in. The only people I know who have done this used a 240v welder outlet, for whatever that is worth.

Personally I'm glad my house as an automatic transfer switch. power goes off, generator starts, and lights go back on. Last time the power went it was planned so I had the generator running and the transfer happened fast enough for my servers to stay up.

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