This a clear and bold violation of the fourth amendment. Let the lawsuits begin!
US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
231–240 of 566 posts
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#232This happened to me in 2016 crossing into Canada. Borders agents took my phone for no reason, demand I give them the password to unlock it (otherwise they would seize the phone), took it in the back for 45 min before returning it and letting me enter. I think it’s obvious they took all my data. So now when I travel I just bring my “travel” phone with no sensitive data on it.
> I give them the password to unlock it (otherwise they would seize the phone) IIRC, I've read they can only hold your phone for 30 days or something like that, then they have to return it to you. They can delay an American citizen, but they can't deny entry. Ever since then, I travel with a travel phone, make sure my photos are backed up when I cross a border, and shut it down before I go through border control. If…
I had this basic thing happen in 2014 -- I refused to give access. I was detained for a while, part of it in a cell, and Canada did explicitly deny me entry. They never gave back my phone or laptop, though I didn't fight too hard for the hardware.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good thing the trend is toward non-removable SIMs to stop that sort of shady business.
Non removable sim? Who wants that?
It is less "sim card is tied to this phone and can't be moved" and more "sim card exists logically and doesn't require a physical presence in the phone it wants to be used in"
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#234This happened to me in 2016 crossing into Canada. Borders agents took my phone for no reason, demand I give them the password to unlock it (otherwise they would seize the phone), took it in the back for 45 min before returning it and letting me enter. I think it’s obvious they took all my data. So now when I travel I just bring my “travel” phone with no sensitive data on it.
They can't actually do that. If you just refuse to give them the password they'll give it back to you.
In 2014, I (an American) refused to give my passwords to Canada and they denied me entry and never gave me back my phone or laptop.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#235I wish the 2nd Amendment folks would care about the 4th Amendment just as much.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. It's the old rule known to governments all over the world - there is no such thing as an innocent citizen, there is only a citizen who you haven't investigated enough. Call me cynical but storing ALL of your digital data allows the agencies to basically find something, anything, that will allow them to further blackmail you into complying. E…
To add to your point, our laws are so overly broad that it is impossible to exist without breaking some law. (your point talks of 'digital data' my comment refers to real-life) From driving 1mph over the speed limit, to skipping FBI warnings on DVDs, to countless other "innocent" infractions. If they look hard enough they will find SOMETHING. And that's all they need.
For people renting it is routine to receive mail for several previous tenants. Everytime you throw away a credit card sign-up offer for someone else, you are committing a felony.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
> 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. This isn't even remotely true. See for example the recent Anom honeypot[1]. Criminals do more or less the same things that ordinary citizens do, and often have strictly wo…
Although grandparent's logic is faulty, I think it does go to an important point. They don't need 15 years warrantless storage of phone data. On anyone, including foreigners. If it takes them 15 years to realise they shouldn't have let someone over the border it is around 14 to 14.995 years too late. The powers these agencies have is far in excesses of what they need to do their jobs, and it is going to be abused. Th…
I agree completely.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
They can't actually do that. If you just refuse to give them the password they'll give it back to you.
As a Canadian? They have to let you enter, but I believe they’ll seize it? As anyone else? “Your request to enter Canada has been denied”
[deleted]
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
I advocate for almost completely open borders, for three reasons, freedom + economic growth + national security. (1) Freedom. Closed borders was actually one of the first iterations of technology being used to suppress human freedom. We had open borders for most of human history. Only with the advent of modern nation states (and the associated mind virus of nationalism) and recent technical capabilities have we both…
I still think there is merit in Lifeboat Ethics. Our country can only support so many people before it would be overwhelmed by resource scarcity and further overpopulation that burdens other nations. Of course closed borders are protectionist. I don't think that's a bad thing.
We're nowhere close to the point where that argument would have merit.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
What the fuck? Are you saying I would get denied entry to a country if I brought no phone or a new phone?
In some countries and contexts this is a possibility. It's not uncommon for countries to have a system where you essentially have to convince a human border guard that you are no threat with no clear guidelines. Having no phone or a phone with not enough data can be a problem in such a context. The vast majority of border crossings across the world don't involve any questions about phones anyway, but if you are at th…
It seems unrealistic to imagine being turned away from entry for having brought a travel phone. I'd need to see some citations to believe it.