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The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

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331–340 of 377 posts

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But WotC doesn't want them to be more valuable, it wants to be able to capture more value from them. These are not equivalent goals. And this is one of the big things with many of the apps crypto promoters wave around that are about big incumbents adopting crypto: they implicitlt require those incumbents being motivated to create value that people invested in crypto infrastructure (the exact for depending on the part…

Ceteris paribus, WotC can capture more value when the collectibles it issues are more valuable. It can sell them at a higher initial price. Whether post-issuance value capture is sufficiently increased by controlling the platform to compensate for the lower market value those assets can command can be argued of course, but I intuit it is not. As it is WotC captures almost no value from secondary market exchanges of i…

> Ceteris paribus, WotC can capture more value when the collectibles it issues are more valuable

Obviously, but equally obviously we aren't talking about a situation where ceteris paribus even approximately holds.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#332
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that always the case? My friend was talking about a rare Magic The Gathering card being worth a silly amount of money... Except the card had only been sold once or twice at that price. Unless you have enough comparable items (e.g. paintings by the Dutch masters) it's really difficult to determine the value of something that's rarely sold.

Funny you should mention MtG, since the first big crypto exchange collapse was MtGox. I always thought it was "Mt. Gox", like a mountain of sorts. Turns out it's Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange. Edit: MtG seems like it has some kind of evergreen popularity, and various format changes, changes in the list of banned cards, reprints, and changes in the metagame will mean that prices of individual cards can vary wil…

What?! Now that's what I call a fun fact. I didn't know about those roots at all. Thanks for sharing.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#333
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a day late with that argument... https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/09/15/1059520/the-merg...

So bitcoin has moved to proof of stake?

The entire thread is about Ethereum...

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What seems insane to you about using an auction model to efficiently price a scarce resource? (The auction model is the transaction fee bidding market, the scarce resource is block space until/unless Ethereum scales.) If you're sidelined by the market because resources are being used by people who feel they have a greater need for them than you (who bid higher), that's an efficient market. It's no different than bein…

It’s not in any way a scarce resource. They are cryptokitties.

> the scarce resource is block space

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a weird flex, I don't understand what you're trying to say. Continue not purchasing things you don't get value out of, I guess? Good for you.

No, he’ll continue paying for things he gets value from using a medium that works for him.

Mediums are themselves services that a consumer decides whether to use based on marginal cost and utility.

They are services that are used to purchase products and services. Purchase decisions are made about these services in the same manner as purchase decisions about the end product, at least under the rational choice theory of economics.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#336
post #87

> What Went Wrong? It's in the title of the article. It's a "Blockchain Game". That's what went wrong. It was a flawed concept from its inception. Blockchains are pretty cool from a math/cryptography standpoint, but they really do not provide added value in most areas people try to apply them to. CryptoKitties is a digital trading card game. You get cards, you can "breed" cards together to make new cards, you trade/b…

Also as Morty would say, it just seems like a pyramid scheme with extra steps.

Pyramid Scheme Pro Max Plus Ultra 2022 v2.0: Electric Boogaloo

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not inherently made possible by the blockchain itself though. It basically is. This is impossible on Eve, if you don't have permission from the people who make Eve. But, with something on the blockchain, you don't need permission from the person who made the original asset, on the blockchain. The asset is on the blockchain, and it is much more difficult to stop me from using that asset, compared to a centra…

Two things are wrong here: 1) The reason it can't be done with EVE is not because EVE is not on the blockchain. It just happens to not be possible because the devs didn't make it so. They could have, but they chose not to. 2) Something being on the blockchain does not make it automatically permission-less. It depends on how the smart contracts involved are coded. I think point 2) is something that a lot of people don…

> A property that any web service is capable of providing without the blockchain having to be involved.

No, then you run into the Byzantine generals problem, which is the specific problem solved by blockchains.

So maybe the problem is you still don't understand what a blockchain is.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting voted down for talking about the value-add here, but I'll give it another shot. I hope I get some replies this time if people find anything unclear. Transferability is useful for key rotation. If you can't transfer your ownership to a new key, then if the old key becomes compromised, you can't prove ownership anymore because anyone else can sign using your key. To fix this you have to rely on the original…

But irrevocability is a problem for this use case, right? Someone is bound to get hacked, lose keys or whatever, and then there's no way to actually prove, inside the blockchain, that it wasn't a legitimate transfer. Anyways, I think the bigger problem is that neither GPG nor blockchain actually solve the "ownership" problem of digital assets. These can be copied without any problem, so proving which ones are origina…

> But irrevocability is a problem for this use case, right? Someone is bound to get hacked, lose keys or whatever, and then there's no way to actually prove, inside the blockchain, that it wasn't a legitimate transfer.

Irrevocability is an issue with physical assets too, but it's a compromise we deal with. If someone pickpockets you on the street, in general there's no getting your money back. You don't necessarily have to hold digital assets in a software wallet under one private key, which is the digital equivalent of walking around with something expensive in your pocket - you can choose to store the item in the digital equivalent of a safe or bank vault.

The nice thing about a digital system is that the user can easily choose where along the spectrum they want their ownership to reside. They can choose to manage the key themself, or have an institution do it for them, or anywhere in between (which involves multi-signature schemes of themself along with other persons and/or institutions of their choosing.)

Furthermore, the digital asset can itself optionally be coded to respond to certain third parties for dispute resolution. Current tech allows for an issuer to create a digital item that contains code such that it allows its ownership to be changed through a dispute process. The dispute resolution authority that's coded in could be as simple as a trusted third party or as complex as a legal system unto itself.

There isn't a single one-size-fits-all approach. Every asset issuer gets to choose their own approach, and they get to maintain interface compatibility with all other assets. For example, USDC is controlled by a company that has full blacklisting capability, but it has the same software interface (ERC-20) as WETH, which is an asset where no third party can exert any control over its functionality.

> Anyways, I think the bigger problem is that neither GPG nor blockchain actually solve the "ownership" problem of digital assets. These can be copied without any problem, so proving which ones are original and which ones aren't is impossible without some kind of DRM or verification service, and that's not something that can be done with the blockchain.

I generally agree, but I believe it's an identity issue, not an ownership issue. If there were some way to prove that a certain private key were in the sole possession of a certain person, then proving whether an asset were original or counterfeit would be as simple as checking to see whether the item was signed by the issuing person's key.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#339
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It just happens to not be possible because the devs didn't make it so. They could have, but they chose not to. And then they could change it at any time, as they would be the central authority. There would be not way to stop them from changing it. Well, thats not true technically. I guess one way that they could implement it, such that they cannot change their mind in the future, would be if the game was run on som…

Blockchains are not the only way of achieving what you describe. It's just one mechanism. You seem to be conflating the "result" achieved with the "mechanism". If a game company wanted to provide the same properties without a blockchain they could do so in other ways. A more extreme example is they could provide you with an actual legal certificate of ownership and transfer all rights to the digital property in that…

> Blockchains are not the only way of achieving what you describe. It's just one mechanism

But you agree that there is some set of features that are only available on a Blockchain, right?

Well whatever that set of features is, that is the features that I am attempting to refer to.

So yes, if you agree that there are features that are only possible on a Blockchain, then I am correct that this set of features is only possible on a Blockchain and that is what I am talking about.

> If a game company wanted to provide the same properties

Not if I am talking about a feature that is only possible on the blockchain. So whatever featureset that you agree is only available on a blockchain that is what I am talking about.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#340
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the blockchain has been kind of tainted by the way it's been used for the past few years, but I do believe that there can be valid uses for it. Lately I've been thinking if it would be possible to have an MMORPG game where instead of a server all the data would be saved in a blockchain/linked list. The biggest concern I have though is the latency and speed. Could blockchains be fast enough or in some other way…

If such blockchain would be truly distributed (a-la Ethereum or BTC) then it's bandwidth would be atrocious for an MMO, or it would require some insanely powerful and centralised nodes to handle this, or it would use some L2 solution which would mean a lot of exploits and bugs in the game due to async issues. Or the the blockchain would be centralised and so useless. This idea fails even in the abstract.

I had a feeling that it might not be doable, but I had hoped that maybe I've missed something and that the HN crowd would shine the light upon it.
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