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CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

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Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#151

Post by xani_ »

ajross wrote: post #71
josephcsible wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not a big risk of overcurrent here, since the 15A breaker will trip on overcurrent even when it's being backfed. The main hazard with these suicide cables is of electrocution, both inside your house due to the exposed blades being energized, and of linemen working to restore the power.

The breaker isn't part of the circuit, though. Generator connects to in-wall distribution which connects to appliances. You only go across the circuit breaker on the way to the mains line, which is (hopefully) disconnected. Or else it's not, and indeed you'll get overcurrent protection for any attempt to power your neighbors appliances.

The breaker is the part of the circuit for the other circuits

you'd have something like

    gen -> circuit A -> main bus -> circuit b-> load
                           | 
                        main fuse/switch
                           |
                         outside
So loads on circuit A would not be protected by any fuse but ones at circuit B would.

Also circuit A would allow full generator amps to the devices there, no RCD protection either.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#152

Post by xani_ »

hedora wrote: post #79

Honestly, they should just mandate a 240V generator port (with a grid cutoff interlock!) on main service boxes moving forward. Ideally, there would be some different standard connector so that the port would only work with inverter-style generators that have constant frequency / voltage as load shifts around. Otherwise, people would end up frying appliance computets with cheap generators. Of course, this would lead t…

Most people would complain as they don't plan on using generator and extra socket and switch is extra cost.

People needing that cable are just being cheap and not wanting to do it properly

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#153

Post by hedora »

sokoloff wrote: post #130
hedora wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it is installed properly, that is just as dangerous as the cord in the article, as long as you remember the "plug generator in last" rule. In particular, both can kill hapless power company employees by unexpectedly backfeeding into downed parts of the grid, and they have similar carbon monoxide/fire hazard issues. (Not that there is anything wrong with the product; I wish they were mandatory, so they'd reliab…

I don't know what percentage of electrical work is inspected, but I would certainly not characterize it as "reliably". There are aisles full of electrical equipment sold at Home Depot and Lowes. The (vast?) majority of that is getting installed with no inspections.

Inspections are hard to avoid when you build a new house, or perform major renovations.

If the outlet were required at that point in time, there wouldn't be a temptation to improperly retrofit the outlet in later.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#154

Post by Dalewyn »

jaywalk wrote: post #85
TheDudeMan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because the alternative is to not have power during the (increasingly common) blackouts. I'm assuming that is the alternative due to there not being a proper way to accomplish this goal that does not cost thousands of dollars.

I highly doubt that having an electrician come out to install an outdoor inlet would cost thousands of dollars.

Installing an outlet yourself? Buy one for $10 or something, more if it's some special outlet, maybe spend an hour or two at most with the actual install.

Hire an electrician to install it for you? Between markups and labor, easily several hundred bucks at the very least. A thousand is entirely plausible.

Ignorance is expensive, knowing how things like electricity and plumbing work will save you money and help make life more fulfilling.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#155

Post by mmastrac »

h2odragon wrote: post #2

I recall a holocaust among hand crafted toys, a few years ago: They were enforcing "materiel origin" labeling or something and you couldn't sell home made toys without a lot of paperwork to certify they were lead free. Amazon is too big for laws to apply, and its umbrella apparently covers foreign sellers on its platform. Another fun toy they sell is the "heated shower heads", a tankless water heater element integrat…

I was curious and found this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/IHeat-2-5-kW-1-5-GPM-Electric-Sh...

Interesting comments on the reviews:

> It worked for a few minutes before blowing the circuit breaker of gfci switch everytime. Good idea but pulls way too much power on an outlet to really be useful. Also you need to keep the water pressure very low, for it to actually warm up, if the pressure is too strong it won't warm it up quickly enough.

> I'm confused on how to use this. The description mentions use for "Outdoor showers, Pool Side showers" and other outdoor examples, but the sticker on the unit specifically says INDOOR USE ONLY. The instructions say that you must locate the shower head a MINIMUM of 6 feet from the plug, but the cord is only 5 feet 10 inches. Plus, if the head is installed at the minimum height of 6 feet, that means the plug has to be 6 feet high too, since any angle would make it less than 6 feet away. There is no way to replace the cord, no way to hardwire it (as the instructions recommend, which is even more confusing), and you can't use an extension cord. More confusion arises on electrical requirements. It says to use 10 AWG minimum, but the cord is 12 AWG (which only supports 20A). It requires a 30A breaker, and it says it draws 23 amps - but the largest standard receptacle made only supports 20A (L5-20), and you'll only find a 20A breaker on an L5-20 circuit. Any 20A outlet you find will also only have 12 AWG wiring. Beyond all that, I tested it by connecting it outdoors to a 20A circuit. I set the flow rate to 0.75 GPM, and purged the air as per instructions. I started by taking power readings. There are 5 temperature settings; readings were, from Low to High: 9.5A, 13.5A, 16A, 18.5A and 20.3A. So at all settings except High, it was actually within the 20A breaker limit. Unfortunately, it always starts on High when you plug it in. I checked the water temperature with my hand when it was on High, and it was really hot - too hot for a shower, at least 110 F. Then I grabbed the thermometer to take readings, but something happened - I'm not sure what, but it basically broke. On High, it dropped to 90 degrees. My inlet temp was 75. It was still heating a little, but not like before. I adjusted flow to make sure the activation point was reached, but no success. Testing aside, I don't think this puts out enough heat to be effective even if it works as advertised. You would really want to use it when the water is very cold, which means you would need maximum heat, which means running it at 0.5 GPM. You're not going to get much shower at that rate.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#156

Post by xani_ »

Lichtso wrote: post #86

All these cable stories always make me wonder: Is it possible to design a safe gender-less power plug? By that I mean one that has no male and female end but two symmetrical ones. That would not only be safer but also more convenient as there would only be one type of such cable, instead of three: (female-male, female-female, male-male).

Not cheaply

> instead of three: (female-male, female-female, male-male).

One. Male to female. From where power flows to where power is delivered.

There is no reason for F-F or M-M power cables to exist.

The whole point is to have power source never be male as that's exposed, energised metal.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#157

Post by Dalewyn »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #148
hajile wrote: post #89

It's not mentioned, but this is DEADLY for innocent linemen too. They check the line before working and it's dead. They start work and some idiot without a proper transfer switch backfeeds through the transformer hitting them with 14k volts.

How often does this actually happen? I would hope that almost anyone using one of these have the sense to turn off their main breaker.

The kind of people this safety advisory is for don't know what a breaker even is.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#158

Post by sC3DX »

TIPSIO wrote: post #74
kevinmchugh wrote: post #39

There's a wonderful kind of writing that pops up at hardware stores in response to annual searches for suicide cables. A couple examples here https://twitter.com/kobunheat/status/1336134415336964096 THESE ARE NOT MADE THEY SHOULD NEVER BE MADE has the kind of direct clarity of existential risk that they sought for with "This is not a place of honor. Nothing of value is here."

Really interesting... What are people doing with their lights where this would ever come up though? Edit: From reddit, a use case is found [1]: > They’re actually used my law enforcement whenever they do a raid and seize a computer. If they turn the computer off, they’ll have to try and get past a password. And if the hard drive is encrypted, they’re basically SOL. > This can be a real issue for things like drug deal…

Funny seeing the /r/livesound link.

Worked in live entertainment for a while. One cable we would use a lot is called a 'two-fer', it has one male and that splits to two female ends (so you can plug two fixtures into one outlet or dimmer). There also exists a 'suicide two-fer' that is the opposite, you can imagine why it has that name.

I believe I've also seen some 'suicide' cable setups when we needed to make multi-phase power for a motor controller by using different 120v sources. Can't remember the exact cabling of that but someone did end up grabbing a hot male end in that process and got a nice tickle.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#159

Post by vel0city »

gpm wrote: post #121
Lichtso wrote: post #86

All these cable stories always make me wonder: Is it possible to design a safe gender-less power plug? By that I mean one that has no male and female end but two symmetrical ones. That would not only be safer but also more convenient as there would only be one type of such cable, instead of three: (female-male, female-female, male-male).

USB-C? Scale up the size as needed... but if you don't have smart devices on each end you have more issues than just the plug... you don't want people plugging wall sockets into wall sockets for obvious reasons.

USB-C is not genderless. The cable is physically different from the port on my laptop and phone. They're suggesting a connector where there isn't a difference between a "plug" and a "cable".

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#160

Post by toast0 »

14 wrote: post #29

When I read the article and it said they sell for $40-$72 my jaw dropped. You could make one of these for under $10 pretty easily. Hell if you were resourceful you could make it for free by finding someone giving away a couple plug in appliances for free and cut the cord and make it. Also I believe these cords are also sold for christmas lights if you hang them the wrong way but if used with a generator I believe the…

Christmas lights usually aren't grounded like the cable shown. I'm sure there are two prong suicide cables too, though.
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