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The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

smithsonianmag.com

181–190 of 327 posts

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#181

with modern synthetic diamond processes, couldn't enough Koh-O-Noor Diamonds be produced to keep everyone happy?

As the article notes: it became a symbol of potency an empire. A lab-made diamond just doesn't have enough blood on it to mean anything: it'd be a giant synthetic rock.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#182
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not on the scale as afterwards, no.

Hahahaha, I am Indian and your statement is so wrong. The Brits were nowhere close to the Islamic invaders when it come to genocides in India. The latter would kill people from tens thousands to hundreds of thousands, in one go just because they didn't happen to be Muslim.

I’m also Indian. The British regime is likely responsible for tens, if not hundreds of millions of deaths through the forcible extraction of food and wealth, and the impoverishment of generations of Indians since. The atrocities of the Mughals are not to be ignored but the simple fact remains that India’s population grew greatly during the period of colonization, as did the brutality and extremity of the methods of extraction.

One source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-35-milli...

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#183
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India should focus on getting their own shit together. They can be content in the knowledge that Britain is a shadow of its former self, without the resources to pay back a fraction of what they took.

Oh the reparations are not happening. But world needs to be aware of the level of apathy the British government had towards its colonies (even in the 20th century)

No post body was provided.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#184
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By record high I meant in recent memory - good catch, should have clarified. To your second point, CoL in London is basically LA level. London rents+council tax make rental prices SF level (around $1-2k/month in rent and around $1-2k/month in local property tax, which rentors apparently pay as well) while London median incomes are below poverty line LA or SF levels (around $40,000/year) [0], and inflation around 8-9%…

That makes it sound like a small miracle that 80% of the people there can afford to live there at all.

Kinda seems like it! I was back there for an industry conference a couple days ago actually and a number of the service staff who were around my age (20s-early 30s) actually asked me about how to immigrate to the US and Canada. Tbf this is anecdotal and I'm sure there are other Brits on this forum who can probably give more information.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Indian politician would want to appear to be appeasing Bangladesh would be slammed as anti-Hindu, anti-Assamese, anti-Tripuri, etc depending on the election, especially over an unneccesary symbolic issue like the Kohinoor diamond. And fundamentally, no one actually cares about the Kohinoor diamond conundrum other than a couple chattering class types like Tharoor. The Kohinoor diamond question is basically a microc…

Release Kashmir as a buffer state and give them the diamond, resolving two international dilemmas with one stone.

Neither will do it as the other nation would try to make it a client country, and it would anyhow fall back into an ethnoreligious civil war like back in the 1990s. Also, it's not just Kashmir - it's Kashmir AND Jammu AND Ladakh AND Gilgit AND Baltistan. There are dividing lines across religion (Sunni vs Shia vs Hindu/Sikh), ethnicity (Pahari vs Koshur vs Migrant vs Balti vs Ladakhi), and caste (Dogra vs Gaddi vs Bakkarwal). If I was negotiating, the only solution would be a full normalization of India-Pakistan relations with cross-border travel restarted like back before the 1971 war, and potentially a SAARC based free trade corridor (free transfer of goods and people from Mazar-i-Sharif to Moreh, from Gilgit to Galle, from Chittagong to Colombo, from Kathmandu to Karachi), but that ain't happening in my lifetime.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the British didn't genocide during the partition of India - the internal clash of Sikhs, Hindus, and Muslims going to war was it's own doing... You're framing it like British soldiers went in there and massacred India during that time. Wrong.

It was absolutely the fault of the British. The partition lines were drawn by lawyer with little to no inputs from experts.

If a lawyer on mars drew an arbitrary line down my street and said people on the side opposite mine were "not of my kind" I wouldn't start murdering them and trying to move the line.

"It's more complicated than tha..."

No, it's not.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#187
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically speaking, we don't really know who owns it. But what we do know is that the British definitely doesn't own it. If somebody stole this from the British today, they have no right to complain!

Britain definitely has the best claim. They were given it in a treaty almost 200 years ago, and are currently in possession of it.

Imagine a thief comes to your house with a gun & a treaty paper. He gives you two options -

1) sign the treaty paper where I leave you harmless but take away all your wealth 2) kill you and your family and take away all your wealth

Which option would you choose?

Your heir 200 years later would stop their claim on it ? Fair deal?

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Release Kashmir as a buffer state and give them the diamond, resolving two international dilemmas with one stone.

Neither will do it as the other nation would try to make it a client country, and it would anyhow fall back into an ethnoreligious civil war like back in the 1990s. Also, it's not just Kashmir - it's Kashmir AND Jammu AND Ladakh AND Gilgit AND Baltistan. There are dividing lines across religion (Sunni vs Shia vs Hindu/Sikh), ethnicity (Pahari vs Koshur vs Migrant vs Balti vs Ladakhi), and caste (Dogra vs Gaddi vs Bak…

There are a lot of complexities involved (you didn't mention the Buddhists, and China has border claims too), but it seems like the locals are pretty fed up with the status quo and have a real "a plague on both your houses" sentiment now. Unfortunately their opinion doesn't seem to matter to the actual powers involved.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/world/asia/pakistan-kashm...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-kashmir-poll-idUSDEL29179...

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#189

A related question I sometimes wonder: wouldn't it be fair to return the cathedrals and the property of monasteries that were "stolen" during the reformation back to the Catholic church?

I think it's a interesting question and I suspect the answer is that this isn't about repatriation of artifacts, it's more about politics. There was a lot of art taken during the Napoleonic Wars from the Catholic Church too. Napoleon took art from other European countries too but the Italian states were the least able to repatriate anything at the time. A lot of art that was looted still sits in the Louvre. I kind of…

> I kind of wonder if repatriation only matters when the artifact came from non western countries to western ones.

No. There's also been a lot of noise over the Elgin Marbles (stolen from Greece, mentioned in the article). The Koh-i-Noor has just been in the news lately because of the death of the queen and it being part of the crown jewels.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#190
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with ancient history as that you never really knew what happened and exactly how many people died. Europeans certainly weren't the first empire to lay claim to India. Warfare, invasions and famine are as old as human history. India is one of the oldest civilised parts of the world so has had its fair share of all https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India

Quoted post unavailable.

> If there’s an archaeological record of anything as terrible as the Bengal famine

The Mongol invasion of China, and the German invasion of the Soviet Union caused far more deaths.

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