Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Ethereum merge is done

coindesk.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

911–920 of 1001 posts

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#911

Post by Salgat »

miohtama wrote: post #848
Salgat wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That defeats the point. People keep forgetting that the single innovative aspect of cryptocurrencies was the invention of a way to do completely anonymous and trustless transactions. That's it. The second you wrap that in a layer that eliminates that, you're better off just skipping the blockchain altogether since it's an otherwise extremely awful performing persistence.

Here is another thread from HackerNews today: ”Stripe nuked my business” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32854528 Visa/MasterCard is never going to be a solution for everyone, everywhere, even if it is a solution for a particular Orignal Poster.

You talk like cryptocurrencies are a valid alternative, even though they have a terrible UX that makes their adoption in the real world near non-existent. Hell, losing or getting your private keys stolen could also nuke your business. Yes, every option comes with its issues, and so far cryptocurrency's issues far exceed other options for businesses.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#912

Post by max51 »

pharmakom wrote: post #367

Intuitively to me it seems that PoS can never work. With PoW the physical reality of scarce energy secures the chain - you can’t spend energy on one computation and another. With PoS we secure it by holding Ether, but what determines who holds Ether? The chain! But that’s what we are trying to secure. Is this turtles all the way down? Can anyone enlighten me?

The part you got wrong is that you think they care about decentralization. Very few people in the crypto spare actually care about it. They say they do, but that's only a part of the sales pitch for their own crypto that they pre-mined.

the BTC dev community did (and still do) a lot of bad things, but the one thing they did right is put their foot down on decentralization even if it meant a bad user experience. If it becomes centralized, then it's nothing more than the most inefficient SQL database and there would be no point in using it to being with.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#913

Post by epolanski »

andsoitis wrote: post #523
once_inc wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using electricity isn't the problem. Anyone could use vast amounts of electricity as long as they are willing to pay the price for it. The problem is carbon emissions. The switch to PoS is a non-issue from my perspective: a centralized system changed from using method A to method B, I don't understand why I should care. Bitcoin mining is increasingly being used to prevent methane emissions in stranded gas reserves. H…

> Reducing methane emissions is vastly more effective at preventing climate change than reducing co2 emissions. This statement caused me to do some light research. I discovered that methane is 25 times as potent as carbon dioxide at trapping heat in the atmosphere.

Closer to 200. Which is why not eating beef has more impact on environment than the car you drive.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#914

Post by epolanski »

Jasper_ wrote: post #669
ineedasername wrote: post #444

Prior to the merge ethereum’s trust was controlled by the organizations with the most money who bought/built massive data centers to mine it. With the merge & staking that abstraction layer has disappeared and it’s still the organizations with the most money who control it. Sure it’s great that non-productive math problems no longer need to be solved & consume so much energy and hardware to make it all work. And it m…

My view is that crypto's goals (e.g. decentralized, deflationary, no transaction reversals) are non-goals, but even if those non-goals were goals, both PoW and PoS fail to effectively solve them, especially the decentralized part. PoS sucks more than PoW on this axis: PoS encourages centralization within the system (those with more ETH control the chain), and PoW encourages centralization outside the system (those wh…

While I am largely against crypto it should be noted that the more ETH you have the less financial incentives you have to attack it.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#915

Post by brianobush »

Waterluvian wrote: post #451
ineedasername wrote: post #444

Prior to the merge ethereum’s trust was controlled by the organizations with the most money who bought/built massive data centers to mine it. With the merge & staking that abstraction layer has disappeared and it’s still the organizations with the most money who control it. Sure it’s great that non-productive math problems no longer need to be solved & consume so much energy and hardware to make it all work. And it m…

Not using up a goat load of electricity is like 99% of why this change is great. Let people speculate on their funny money without harming everyone. A lateral move on the other details is rather unsurprising.

Agreed. Next I want gamers to quit wasting energy too. They should just read books and do something useful with their time.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#916

Post by brianobush »

hwillis wrote: post #511
once_inc wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using electricity isn't the problem. Anyone could use vast amounts of electricity as long as they are willing to pay the price for it. The problem is carbon emissions. The switch to PoS is a non-issue from my perspective: a centralized system changed from using method A to method B, I don't understand why I should care. Bitcoin mining is increasingly being used to prevent methane emissions in stranded gas reserves. H…

> The switch to PoS is a non-issue from my perspective: a centralized system changed from using method A to method B, I don't understand why I should care. Because every bitcoin transaction costs $60 in electricity. That is a monumentally stupid amount to pay. It's $125 per kB. Proof of stake incentivizes capital directly. Proof of work incentivizes capital via the ability to find prime numbers, which limits you to p…

Incorrect assumption: miners use energy regardless of the number of transactions going through.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#917

Post by meowkit »

Jasper_ wrote: post #669
ineedasername wrote: post #444

Prior to the merge ethereum’s trust was controlled by the organizations with the most money who bought/built massive data centers to mine it. With the merge & staking that abstraction layer has disappeared and it’s still the organizations with the most money who control it. Sure it’s great that non-productive math problems no longer need to be solved & consume so much energy and hardware to make it all work. And it m…

My view is that crypto's goals (e.g. decentralized, deflationary, no transaction reversals) are non-goals, but even if those non-goals were goals, both PoW and PoS fail to effectively solve them, especially the decentralized part. PoS sucks more than PoW on this axis: PoS encourages centralization within the system (those with more ETH control the chain), and PoW encourages centralization outside the system (those wh…

How are the incentives described any different than any other system?

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#918

Post by StanislavPetrov »

ineedasername wrote: post #444

Prior to the merge ethereum’s trust was controlled by the organizations with the most money who bought/built massive data centers to mine it. With the merge & staking that abstraction layer has disappeared and it’s still the organizations with the most money who control it. Sure it’s great that non-productive math problems no longer need to be solved & consume so much energy and hardware to make it all work. And it m…

>If a criminal spies on my credit card # as I make a purchase and uses that to go on a spending spree I can fix it with the credit card company with little cost but a few hours of time and frustration.

However, if a much more powerful criminal spies on your credit card # as you send money to Wikileaks or a bunch of truckers who drive to Ottowa for a protest you can never fix it when your card is cancelled and your bank account is seized. Or when you face a variety of other sanctions and persecutions for spending or donating your own hard-earned money.

>Crypto? No. It may, eventually, have some other benefits though that’s yet to be seen.

These benefits have already been seen and realized by people targeted by authoritarian governments and banking cabals all over the globe.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#919

Post by [deleted] »

brianobush wrote: post #915
Waterluvian wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not using up a goat load of electricity is like 99% of why this change is great. Let people speculate on their funny money without harming everyone. A lateral move on the other details is rather unsurprising.

Agreed. Next I want gamers to quit wasting energy too. They should just read books and do something useful with their time.

[deleted]

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#920

Post by dinobones »

Waterluvian wrote: post #451
ineedasername wrote: post #444

Prior to the merge ethereum’s trust was controlled by the organizations with the most money who bought/built massive data centers to mine it. With the merge & staking that abstraction layer has disappeared and it’s still the organizations with the most money who control it. Sure it’s great that non-productive math problems no longer need to be solved & consume so much energy and hardware to make it all work. And it m…

Not using up a goat load of electricity is like 99% of why this change is great. Let people speculate on their funny money without harming everyone. A lateral move on the other details is rather unsurprising.

The thing is, most "crypto haters" on HN are just regretful no-coiners. Crypto is exactly the type of thing you would except HN to love, it ticks the box in so many ways, except for the one where... They forgot to buy some and are forever resentful.

I honestly struggle to believe this group of people truly care that much about crypto's effects on the environment; from the people I've spoken about this with personally, they always come across as hyperbolic and dishonest.

To some degree I believe it is their brain subconsciously trying to justify their hared because they were "left out," the same way some people, for example, irrationally hate The Avengers because they never saw it and got sick of hearing people talk so much about it around its release. Each reminder of being left out burns you just that little bit more, and it's hard to be objective and come around to something once you feel that way about it.

I'm not surprised this "ya but, crypto still bad" comment is the top comment here on HN. It's pretty funny to me.

Post reply on HN