I still want to see Congress pass a law requiring any internet company that accepts money or fees from you that bans you, must give the exact reason, evidence, and where on your contract / ToS you violated. Frankly, at a certain size (millions of customers), these companies are utilities.
Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business
561–570 of 705 posts
Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business
#562Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm trying to understand your position here: You think AML/KYC laws, as they currently exist, are unconstitutional? edit: That's a fine position to have, but it's a fringe one, and I don't think you should be offering it as a reason why Stripe does what it does that's generally accepted by everyone else.
No. I don’t think it’s unconstitutional which is why I said “ otherwise unconstitutional”. And you’re (perhaps deliberately) completely misunderstanding and conflating my two comments. I am quite confident that OP’s problems with Stripe are AML related which is not at all a “fringe” position.
I'm curious as to why you think that? Is this a way way more common thing than I expect? Or is "My startup uses Stripe Connect to accept payments on behalf of our clients" a raging red AML flag I don't recognise (I've never done that, so it could easily be)?
Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business
#563According to previous posts* this company sells something related to cannibis. I'd love to know why certain categories are always flagged or silently banned. Cannibis, sex toys, porn, crypto, etc. Payment processors seem to always give these categories the worst service and whenever a company is nuked like this, it's usually one of these categories. Why is that? It almost feels like there's some secret government org…
While I don't know what the incentives are for payment processors, they act as though they are under a quota, similar to SARs in banks, where it's mainly about showing they are getting petty crime as a means to protect their interest in partnership level crime.
Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business
#564Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many fraudsters are maintaining a business relationship for 6 years? 6 years! And the OP doesn't even get a courtesy phone call before termination. That's messed up.
The answer is, "A lot more than you think." One of the attacks that fraudsters have developed is to buy businesses to use their accounts for fraud. That going out with a fraudulent bang is better than trying to run a marginal business.
Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business
#565A little off topic but just like the suggestions here to have multiple payment processors, in your personal life have multiple checking accounts at different banks. Many banks are shutting down accounts for no apparent reason most likely due to AML and KYC. Your money can be tied up and you have no way to pay bills or get cash.
7 days(!) of interactions with their support (chat via the app, the only option), sending numerous photos of cards and other things at their request, yet my account remained locked.
Eventually what worked was posting to their Facebook social media, then it was resolved within 20 minutes.
I still use Revolut because it has convenient features, but I won't keep a significant balance in the account any more, in case it is randomly locked again.
Occasionally their marketing suggests I make it my main account and salary destination. Maybe open a business account. Ha!
Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business
#566Earlier quoted context omitted.
One thing that is almost impossible to do on your own is to get a merchant account that you will be using to process payments on behalf of others. So if that is your business model, you are almost certainly in for the fight of your life with banks and merchant providers, along with some stupidly high reserve funds. Stripe makes this super easy, but it is a house of cards based on stories like this one. So I agree, yo…
More specifically: if you're in the business of processing payments on behalf of others, you actually have "bank" as a core competency / requirement of your business model and need to make your plans accordingly (or carry the added risk of having your core business model outsourced).
Is there an X.509-based hierarchical bank registrar system for charge-origination signing certificates, for putting charges onto the card networks? Is there a DNS registry of merchant accounts for pre-checking charges before attempting them? Do banks underwrite other banks into existence by signing their certs?
Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
You use a 3rd party payment orchestration platform. Spreedly and Very Good Security both offer this and we use them for our business.
I am not familiar with this. What makes them less of a single point of failure?
Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
More specifically: if you're in the business of processing payments on behalf of others, you actually have "bank" as a core competency / requirement of your business model and need to make your plans accordingly (or carry the added risk of having your core business model outsourced).
What magic wand do banks possess that enables them to declare-into-existence a merchant account, anyway? I mean in a technical sense, not a legal sense. What are payment gateways and other banks seeing, that allows them to know that a particular merchant account X is a "real" account, that can be targeted with credit card payments, rather than a made-up one? Is there an X.509-based hierarchical bank registrar system…
Re: Stripe has decided to nuke my entire business
#569I'm considering using stripe connect for something very tame (like a gig economy thing) and I've looked into it and I really want to use standard accounts because I don't like how the liability shifts to me for custom and Express accounts.
Sure, the customized user experience for those is quite nice but I don't really care about that I just want to ensure I can have the best possible relationship with a payment processor.
Honestly I love stripe like how they made s** easy for me. I had my first case of fraud the other day and it's just so easy to refund it and all the tools they provide I just feel so safe like they protected me from whatever bad s** could have happened if I hadn't you know handled this potential fraud well.
Personally I found their email support to be really comprehensive and just really top-notch awesome and their chat support to be more responsive and more generalized but still good. So my suggestion is like maybe if you have a serious issue maybe email support is a good way to go I mean just an idea.
The thing about standard accounts for connect is all of that interaction on the client's account gets deactivated or something you're not responsible for trying to pick that up like that's between the customer and strive so I mean maybe it's not a great experience for your customers but for the longevity of your business and for the experience of all your customers you can basically say sorry you know you have to take this up with stripe there's nothing we can do. Maybe I don't have the correct info but that's how I understand it.
The way I see these payment processors though is like my connect business will exist at the benefiance and generosity at the grace of the king. I mean I basically have to you keep the kings of the stripe empire happy because you know my upcoming connect business is completely dependent on them. So I think that's going to be in my thinking like rather than just thinking all I have to do everything to satisfy customers my first customer will actually be stripe so I have to do everything to satisfy them and then I have to do everything to satisfy customers. to some people that may not sound ideal but I just see that as the reality.
At the same time in the long term because of how these things can occur like your business got nuked, I've read of other people's businesses getting cancelled... I'm sure there are processes behind it but like I have the feeling of fear like this could just happen to me one day even if I'm trying to do everything right.
Maybe it couldn't but I have that fear and I think I need to take precautions for that so basically I think I have to keep a good relationship with stripe but at the same time I want to develop a way to like have a button that I can switch and, "okay stripe bans me" and I can switch over like technical redundancy to another payment processor.
Even then I don't think is a foolproof strategy because I mean I'm sure all the big payment processes are kind of in League with each other and in communication with each other to some extent so you there may be some you know you'll get sort of banned by a whole clique of them or something but ... like other people have said here it seems there are payment processes who take on business who have been kicked out of stripe.
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Also no offense but my impression from Reading striped docs is like if they're going to you know be banning connect accounts or you know having issues with payments then you'll get some sort of warnings about like early forward warning or you know you'll get requests for information you know for compliance purposes for those connect accounts I don't know my sense is like maybe you just thought those requests or those notifications or just not important you know you got your business to run you don't have time for this you're sure that all your customers are legitimate you know you feel you can vouch for them and so your attitude was it doesn't f*** matter I don't have to do this. I mean maybe so you're saying their support wasn't responsive but maybe my feeling is you probably might not have been responsive in the past.
That's just my sense but you know I might be incorrect about that and I think it just kind of is reassuring for me to think that's the case because then I can think well I can do better you know I can have a a more assured relationship with them then what I've read about. Anyway that's my take on it you got to try to be prepared but I certainly offer a lot of good stuff.