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Earth is now our only shareholder

patagonia.com

41–50 of 54 posts

Re: Earth is now our only shareholder

#41
post #34
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we as a civilization have jumped too far, too fast, we don't actually need those things to survive, and we will need to be comfortable temporarily sacrificing certain luxuries If you mean the average hacker news reader, you may be right. If you're talking about the average person on this planet, you're very far off. The type of global reform that makes a high earning tech worker's smart phone double in price will a…

> The type of global reform that makes a high earning tech worker's smart phone double in price will also have millions of people pushed back into poverty or outright starvation. I don't see any reason to believe this, nor any justification of that statement in the rest of your comment. Is it really so hard to believe that some of those at the top can lose a little bit of luxury, and the rest of the world can gain ac…

> I don't see any reason to believe this, nor any justification of that statement in the rest of your comment.

I hope you're right but am convinced you're wrong. There's no straightforward regulation that we can put into place that affects only the affluent layers. The most successful global regulation to date, that I can think of, is the elimination of CFCs, which was enabled because of readily available replacements. The replacements for fossil fuels are not even close, requires replacing the majority of existing infrastructure, and the cream on top is that climate activists are persisting in phasing OUT nuclear, when we need it the most.

> Which approach do you think will cause less suffering: preparing for a dearth of resources that we can see coming before it happens, or waiting until people are dying of starvation en masse to start thinking about it?

I think the former option does not exist in practice. Why? Because when you have a significant drop in standard-of-living over a short period of time, people turn to populism and will reject the paradigm that forces them to have worse lives than their parents, even if it's to their own or others' detriment in the medium-long term. Perhaps not the affluent classes, but certainly the working- and middle classes (that by the way have already been significantly eroded in the western world over the last decades).

The third option is technological advancements - in practice, finding non-fossil replacements at a cost that societies can bear. This is what, imo, the wealthy and climate-conscious nations should spend their time and resources on, to pave the way for others to follow when the solutions have become cheaper. The US can play a big role in this, but so can affluent, socially conscious and technologically strong smaller countries. Most of them, however, are living in complete denial and are instead intentionally crippling themselves to prove a point that developing countries don't give 2 shits about.

Re: Earth is now our only shareholder

#42

Honestly never was interested in Patagonia (associated them with Silicon Valley bro types). After learning about the company and its owner from the move they made yesterday I'll probably refresh my wardrobe with some of their products for the coming winter.

>associated them with Silicon Valley bro types Patagonia themselves dislike this association, going so far as to refuse to make clothing for many of these people. https://gizmodo.com/patagonia-will-stop-selling-those-horrib...

And the reason the bros like it is because it's legitimately good quality and it looks good. You can wear it on the slopes and keep it on at après-ski, so to speak.

Also, my personal endorsement: I love my Patagonia fleece vest. I got mine used on Ebay 7 years ago and it has held up that long.

Re: Earth is now our only shareholder

#43
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's probably as far from SV bro's as you can get

I'm guessing you spent little to no time on Sand Hill Road last decade. The lunch spots could have been ads for Patagonia sweater-vests and Allbirds shoes.

I meant Yvon isn't like SV bros

Re: Earth is now our only shareholder

#44

I wish they'd use less plastic. It's hard to find anything from Patagonia that uses environmentally-friendly materials. Perhaps they can research a way to make performance fabrics that are better for the earth. Allbirds has been a real pioneer in this space, and they've shown that you can use natural, sustainable materials and produce a product just as good as the others.

*sustainable is highly disputed, it's unclear any use can be sustainable past a certain scale

Re: Earth is now our only shareholder

#45
post #21
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not have a problem with your phone costing $2000 dollars in that case, but there's so much machinery, equipment, chips, materials and various other products that would massively increase in cost or simply couldn't be produced anywhere else. How would that affect healthcare, education, manufacturing, whatever? I'm guessing that the amount of avoidable deaths that would be caused just because you can't get a…

"De-growth" should be understood to mean we will have to give up some things in the name of the greater good. Yours is quite a common argument, but ultimately it is justified by a sense of entitlement of having the technology that is now assumed to be necessary and inevitable. The reality is that we as a civilization have jumped too far, too fast, we don't actually need those things to survive, and we will need to be…

Machinery, materials, medicines that save lives aren't luxuries and I don't think you can argue that needlesly letting a lot of people die is in any way a greater good.

Maybe dialing it back 10% and not 100% cold turkey?

Re: Earth is now our only shareholder

#46

Honestly never was interested in Patagonia (associated them with Silicon Valley bro types). After learning about the company and its owner from the move they made yesterday I'll probably refresh my wardrobe with some of their products for the coming winter.

So you don't need actual product, just their idea. That is pure consumerism. I do recommend documentary series Century of Self (2002, BBC) from Alex Curtis that explain how it works.

Re: Earth is now our only shareholder

#47
post #46

Honestly never was interested in Patagonia (associated them with Silicon Valley bro types). After learning about the company and its owner from the move they made yesterday I'll probably refresh my wardrobe with some of their products for the coming winter.

So you don't need actual product, just their idea. That is pure consumerism. I do recommend documentary series Century of Self (2002, BBC) from Alex Curtis that explain how it works.

* Adam Curtis

Re: Earth is now our only shareholder

#48
post #47
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't need actual product, just their idea. That is pure consumerism. I do recommend documentary series Century of Self (2002, BBC) from Alex Curtis that explain how it works.

* Adam Curtis

Oh, yes, sorry, I cannot edit now.

Re: Earth is now our only shareholder

#49

Just in time that I would like to buy a winter jacket, seems Patagonia is the brand, if not at least a used one.

I've got a Patagonia Parka, I get excited to wear it when it gets cold and rainy.

They create amazing products that last long and you get fond of

Re: Earth is now our only shareholder

#50
post #3

Chouinard is one classy dude. It's a shame that the US legal system ruined his climbing company. I still have a sentimental old ice harness with the proper diamond logo. It inspires me to see him still doing things his way.

Sounds like you have interesting background on the history with a specific perspective Can you share more?

Rock climbing has a history as a technical part of Alpinism. Over time, some people started to enjoy rock climbing more as a sport, and as an end unto itself, instead of just a sub-skill contributing to mountain ascents. Early 20c rock climbing started to break from the traditional siege mountaineering techniques: fixed ropes, jumars, hammered pins, hooks, etriers, nailed boots, etc. Post war, the availability of nylon, aluminium, chrome-steel, and synthetic rubber opened up the possibilities. Modern big-wall, ice, and clean rock styles developed. Chouinard was part of all these scenes, and big proponent of style. He made equipment, put up hard routes, and evangelized. He was one of many founders of modern "clean" style, using dynamic ropes and clean pro, leaving "nothing but footprints.

Many early climbers made their own gear, or bought from a climber who did. But Chouinard (with Tom Frost) really got into it, and improved or invented a bunch of things (e.g. Hexcentrics, the modern ice axe, and then camalots!) that made clean climbing possible and safe(er). Chouinard equipment was from the future.

But then the 80's happened, and the diy hippie scene gave way to the lawyers. Some people (novices, window washers, and other untrained people) died when they failed to secure their harness and fell, and the lawsuits looked likely to sink them. You'll notice the colour warnings and liability label around the double-back buckle these days -- that's from these suits. But, ever classy, he declared bankruptcy, sold the hard assets to the employees, and walked away. The logo and his name was consumed by the lawsuits, so the new Black Diamond logo was born. This image[0] shows two Chouinard logos, and then the BD logo. My old harness has the left logo, and I still have an old fimo earring I made to match. No offence meant to the BD people, but their logo will always be wrong to my eye.

The wiki does an ok job with the basics[1], but it doesn't catch the mood of it. I started climbing in the 80s, coming up in the Yosemite school. We were absolutely scandalized that someone could try and sue when climbing went wrong -- especially for mis-use of the gear. Self-authority was central to the scene. Smarter people than me also knew there would be all sorts of secondary problems, and the battles over access in the next decades often had liability concerns at their core. It was the end of an era.

  [0] https://www.gearx.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/shirt2-300x195.jpg
  [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Diamond_Equipment#History
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