Live data from Hacker News

The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

smithsonianmag.com

71–80 of 327 posts

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the owner before the Sikh Empire was the Durrani Empire before which was the Afsharids before which was the Mughals. So is it India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Iran, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, or Turkmenistan if using the broadest definition of a successor state. And "federal government holds it as stewards of the people" would piss off a subset of voters in both Punjabs, JK, Himachal, Haryana, Delhi,…

We know the boundaries of each empire, and can make guesstimates of each population. Weigh each claim by how long they held it, and the population of each historic state at the time, not the modern successor state. So the centroid of "ownership" would move across South Asia over time (I doubt a weighed centroid would ever leave South Asia). Advance the clock, and the centroid would advance from Southeast India to the…

Well, it was defacto owned by Gulab Singh at that point (who was basically his own automous and honestly pretty evil warlord - fun fact, my mom's side of the family is directly descended from his top general and my dad's side of the family emigrated to British India because in the 1800s they were mere Pahari peasants who were required to partake in forced labor for Raja Gulab Singh's family, and resettled on a portion of land that was part of a massive land tract given to a major Zamindar/Feudal Lord who supported Duleep Singh and thus lost it after the war). And the key question then is, who is the successor state? The Sikh Empire's successor state was the British Raj and the Princely State of Kashmir and Jammu's successor state is - oh wait, 4 wars, ethnic cleansing, and a 40 year insurgency occured over this question).

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#73

Not a fan of the British crown (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) but who should they return the diamond to - Afghanistan (it was the Durranis that looted it from Nader Shah after he looted it from the Mughals), India (Maharaja Ranjit Singh took it as tribute from Shah Shuja after conquering Kashmir from the Durranis), or Pakistan (the Sikh Empire capital was Lahore and the Durrani Empire c…

Quoted post unavailable.

No, it's a legitimate argument.

If the British had taken possession of an object from an Indian tribe in California in 1800, who would be entitled to it? The U.S. government? The government of Mexico? The State of California? The Tribes' descendants?

Possession is 9/10 of the law.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree. Indiscriminately killing civilians is labelled terrorism, and rightly so.

Yes, but so are an awful lot of other things. Animal rights and environmental activists have been frequently tagged with that term, even when engaged in nonviolent protest. https://digitalcommons.du.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10...

Or 'fist bumps':

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/terrorist_fist_jab

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#75
post #13

Not a fan of the British crown (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) but who should they return the diamond to - Afghanistan (it was the Durranis that looted it from Nader Shah after he looted it from the Mughals), India (Maharaja Ranjit Singh took it as tribute from Shah Shuja after conquering Kashmir from the Durranis), or Pakistan (the Sikh Empire capital was Lahore and the Durrani Empire c…

Also would the world be a better place if they gave it back to some third party, so it can be sold to a private collection and be locked in a vault somewhere? Where it is now has a lot of historical and cultural significance. It is currently being admired publicly by thousands of people, sitting on the coffin of Queen Elisabeth.

> It is currently being admired publicly by thousands of people, sitting on the coffin of Queen Elisabeth. [sic]

I think you mistook that photograph in the article or misread the caption - that was Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother's coffin; not Elizabeth II's.

The crown 'currently being admired publicly [...]' does not contain the Kohinoor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_State_Crown

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#78

Not a fan of the British crown (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) but who should they return the diamond to - Afghanistan (it was the Durranis that looted it from Nader Shah after he looted it from the Mughals), India (Maharaja Ranjit Singh took it as tribute from Shah Shuja after conquering Kashmir from the Durranis), or Pakistan (the Sikh Empire capital was Lahore and the Durrani Empire c…

Here's a solution: regard the diamond as the property and legacy of the people, with the royals holding it as mere stewards. Rather than basing the center of the nation at the location of the royal court, consider a population weighted centroid as the center of the legal holding. So for example, while the former Sikh empire was based at Lahore, much of the western Punjab was sparsely populated till the early 20th cen…

After determining the point on the earth where the time-population-weighted center of ownership lies, let’s seize that land from whoever lives there now so an appropriate secure facility can be built to house the diamond in perpetuity.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the British didn't genocide during the partition of India - the internal clash of Sikhs, Hindus, and Muslims going to war was it's own doing... You're framing it like British soldiers went in there and massacred India during that time. Wrong.

It was absolutely the fault of the British. The partition lines were drawn by lawyer with little to no inputs from experts.

Err, the original instruction from the British government was to avoid partition and preserve a united India.

Ultimately self determination involves taking responsibility.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#80

Not a fan of the British crown (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) but who should they return the diamond to - Afghanistan (it was the Durranis that looted it from Nader Shah after he looted it from the Mughals), India (Maharaja Ranjit Singh took it as tribute from Shah Shuja after conquering Kashmir from the Durranis), or Pakistan (the Sikh Empire capital was Lahore and the Durrani Empire c…

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm just making very basic arguments. I have no horses in this race - I'm an American citizen of South/Central Asian descent who has grown up in North America their entire life, I couldn't give 2 $H!T$. But I do like pointing out incongruities in social science and policy discussions on this community, same way I try to correct technical discussions on EJMR and Product/GTM discussions on Blind. Beats prepping yet another RFQ or Product Roadmap.
Post reply on HN