Live data from Hacker News

The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

smithsonianmag.com

61–70 of 327 posts

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, any efforts by the powerless to redress the balance are generally labeled terrorism.

Hard disagree. Indiscriminately killing civilians is labelled terrorism, and rightly so.

Yes, but so are an awful lot of other things. Animal rights and environmental activists have been frequently tagged with that term, even when engaged in nonviolent protest.

https://digitalcommons.du.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10...

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#62

Not a fan of the British crown (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) but who should they return the diamond to - Afghanistan (it was the Durranis that looted it from Nader Shah after he looted it from the Mughals), India (Maharaja Ranjit Singh took it as tribute from Shah Shuja after conquering Kashmir from the Durranis), or Pakistan (the Sikh Empire capital was Lahore and the Durrani Empire c…

Put it in a museum in India.

Yes, it might piss some off, but this idea of keeping the status quo (keeping it with the British) because it is complicated is ridiculous.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a solution: regard the diamond as the property and legacy of the people, with the royals holding it as mere stewards. Rather than basing the center of the nation at the location of the royal court, consider a population weighted centroid as the center of the legal holding. So for example, while the former Sikh empire was based at Lahore, much of the western Punjab was sparsely populated till the early 20th cen…

But the owner before the Sikh Empire was the Durrani Empire before which was the Afsharids before which was the Mughals. So is it India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Iran, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, or Turkmenistan if using the broadest definition of a successor state. And "federal government holds it as stewards of the people" would piss off a subset of voters in both Punjabs, JK, Himachal, Haryana, Delhi,…

We know the boundaries of each empire, and can make guesstimates of each population. Weigh each claim by how long they held it, and the population of each historic state at the time, not the modern successor state. So the centroid of "ownership" would move across South Asia over time (I doubt a weighed centroid would ever leave South Asia). Advance the clock, and the centroid would advance from Southeast India to the north over time. Once the clock reaches the point at which the British ransomed it from Duleep Singh, award it the successor state of wherever the centroid is.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#64

Not a fan of the British crown (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) but who should they return the diamond to - Afghanistan (it was the Durranis that looted it from Nader Shah after he looted it from the Mughals), India (Maharaja Ranjit Singh took it as tribute from Shah Shuja after conquering Kashmir from the Durranis), or Pakistan (the Sikh Empire capital was Lahore and the Durrani Empire c…

No post body was provided.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#65

Not a fan of the British crown (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) but who should they return the diamond to - Afghanistan (it was the Durranis that looted it from Nader Shah after he looted it from the Mughals), India (Maharaja Ranjit Singh took it as tribute from Shah Shuja after conquering Kashmir from the Durranis), or Pakistan (the Sikh Empire capital was Lahore and the Durrani Empire c…

> (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation)

(Because we pay taxes to the crown, doesn't really make sense for the king to pay tax to his majesty's own revenue and customs, HMRC. That said, there was something in the accension council about continuing to volunteer tax on something or another, and as the Duke of Cornwall he volunteered tax on duchy income. My understanding is that the royal family is a net contributor to state coffers even without (how would you even begin) accounting for all the tourism income.)

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#66
post #33
post #7

James Acaster does a great job highlighting the absurdity of the British refusing to repatriate stuff taken from the empire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x73PkUvArJY

It's only absurd if you think that countries ought to behave like people in a society. All the laws and rules of societies serve one purpose, to keep themselves stable. The abstraction of Justice doesn't apply outside of society, unfortunately.

Let's not mistake laws for ethics.

At bottom, there are people. A group of them will sometimes call themselves a government. The ethical understanding of the actions undertaken by people ("ought to behave") doesn't need to change based on whether they claim to be a government or not, or claim to be operating within the law.

Trail of Tears? Japanese American internment? Abu Ghraib? Guantanamo Bay detention camp? The fact that these were actions of a country does not stop us from saying that they were wrong, and yes, absurd given the self-righteous pomposity of my and other western governments who pretend to be special defenders of liberty.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decree that it be split equally among all invested parties, Judgment of Solomon style. (Though in this case, they may end up having to follow through, i.e. cutting their baby into equal parts.)

But which Afghanistan - the Taliban or the basically nonexistent Government in Exile?

The obvious partial answer is to stop parading it around while that questions considered.

Tbh I don't care where the rock is or who owns it. Regarding the crown I just wish investments were transparent on par with sovereign wealth funds (Norway's Global Pension Fund is gold standard imo).

Where are they investing, is it ESG? Whats the structure for tax purposes. Etc.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#68
post #65

Not a fan of the British crown (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) but who should they return the diamond to - Afghanistan (it was the Durranis that looted it from Nader Shah after he looted it from the Mughals), India (Maharaja Ranjit Singh took it as tribute from Shah Shuja after conquering Kashmir from the Durranis), or Pakistan (the Sikh Empire capital was Lahore and the Durrani Empire c…

> (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) (Because we pay taxes to the crown, doesn't really make sense for the king to pay tax to his majesty's own revenue and customs, HMRC. That said, there was something in the accension council about continuing to volunteer tax on something or another, and as the Duke of Cornwall he volunteered tax on duchy income. My understanding is that the royal family i…

What about revenue generated from Waitrose Duchy Organic and other Crown owned but Private enterprises[0]? Not combative but actually curious, but I'd prefer an actual legal opinion on this, not some online commentator to be honest.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waitrose_Duchy_Organic

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#69
post #44
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They stole it fair and square. If somebody is mad about it they should steal it back.

Stealing it is just theft. To make it "legitimate" you have to claim it by conquest.

According to the article, they need to wait for a young king, kidnap his mother and use that leverage to force him to hand it over along with a 'legal' document saying they own it.

Re: The Koh-i-Noor diamond, and why the British won’t give it back (2017)

#70

Not a fan of the British crown (why are they exempt from taxes during record high inflation) but who should they return the diamond to - Afghanistan (it was the Durranis that looted it from Nader Shah after he looted it from the Mughals), India (Maharaja Ranjit Singh took it as tribute from Shah Shuja after conquering Kashmir from the Durranis), or Pakistan (the Sikh Empire capital was Lahore and the Durrani Empire c…

Put it in a museum in India. Yes, it might piss some off, but this idea of keeping the status quo (keeping it with the British) because it is complicated is ridiculous.

Why not Pakistan? Why not Afghanistan?
Post reply on HN