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Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

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Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#301

Post by yrgulation »

2rsf wrote: post #58
oxff wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was taking into account cost of living increases and inflation when I wrote it, it's quite grim to live in Western Europe on regular dev salary :D

> it's quite grim to live in Western Europe on regular dev salary No it's not. We still earn above average and (very) generally life in Europe are not grim.

How many properties do you own? Few people i know in east europe own at least a second home. One owns four flats and land. Do you own at least the home you live in or is it bank owned? Not being rude, just asking if the above average salary actually brings above average living, and not just a new iphone and macbook pro every 5-6 years. Does it allow for one to grow into more than just a wage earner?

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#302

Post by IaacForHire »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #183
IaacForHire wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The you have to factor in $0 in health costs (gratis hospital and doctor visits), no payments for kids attending university, 32 weeks of paid maternal leave, and 5 weeks of mandatory holiday each year. This sounds great if you're the type to have a family. Otherwise, seems like you kind of get screwed?

Only if you consider the pure $ value. US colleagues that have come to Australia, have gotten sick and um-ed and ah-ed about visiting the doctor because they are so used to the high costs. If I even notice something weird that freaks me out I go to the doctor. Mental health care, physiotherapy, certain tests and imaging. You get a yearly allocation to use up. GP visits are all "free". I never have to worry about it a…

I agree with you on the stress. I only visit the USA for funerals now. I just had 3 root canals and crowns done last year, it cost me $750 at a high-end dental office. I think that would get me 1/2 of a root canal in the states.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#303

Post by jltsiren »

finikytou wrote: post #284
jltsiren wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London and Paris are expensive, but they are not the norm. Home ownership is still affordable to dual-income middle-class families in Western Europe, and there are plenty of nice cities to choose from. In many larger cities, central locations are ridiculously expensive. Once you get further away from the center, prices drop quickly. Because the society is less car-centric, location has a bigger impact on home prices…

well city center or further in the city is 10kSQM in paris minimum that still puts the house into unaffordable territory with a european salary of ~80k for a senior dev. germany is a bit different because they have multiple job cities but take other countries. London vs other english cities job market will be night and day. Same for paris. You just don't get the same opportunities in smaller cities. Spain same. Portu…

First, buying on a single salary is always difficult, because you are competing primarily against dual-income households.

Second, the problem seems to be chasing the hottest job markets. Those places are often unaffordable, because there is too much money floating around. They are good for people near the top, who can get very high compensation, as well as those near the bottom, who are happy to accept any job. People in the middle often find better deals in places with fewer opportunities and lower costs of living.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#304

Post by giantg2 »

juve1996 wrote: post #290
giantg2 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's diesel service. It's half of being a diesel electric mechanic. Of course that number is lower because of all the regular diesel mechanics dragging it down. "For me? I'll be paid more, for way less hours, with way more benefits, remote work, etc." Go ahead, lord over us how much better you are. I'll live in the real world where the median dev salary is $110k, the work is boring, the company screws you over, and…

Feel free to provide another source other than your mythical friend. If it is that high, then there aren't many jobs there. I grew up in a blue collar household. My grandfather died of cancer he got from working in a steel mill, my dad has bad knees from working as a laborer (now an electrician.) He worked his life away to provide a better life for me. It's not about being "better." or elitism - It's just simple - co…

"if you think there aren't bad bosses in the trades"

I never said that.

"My grandfather died of cancer he got from working in a steel mill, my dad has bad knees from working as a laborer (now an electrician.)"

Yeah, you can get diseases working in an office, or higher risk of cardiovascular events and cancers from being sedentary.

"He worked his life away to provide a better life for me."

Sounds emotional and possibly a source of bias being that you don't want cognitive dissonance if the life really isn't any better.

"It's not about being "better." or elitism - It's just simple - cost/benefit analysis."

Yet I see none of that here.

"I remember when I was less mature,"

Thanks, really love all the backhanded insults and belittling. I bet I'm older than you (neither of us is mature based on this exchange). It's pretty shitty of you to assume my current salary is over $90k. Plenty of trades can earn that or more and not be sedentary.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#305

Post by potta_coffee »

IaacForHire wrote: post #299
yrgulation wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A welder in london charges 700£ plus per day. A bit difficult to reach as a software engineer.

Funny, this is my plan to get out of tech. I've been welding bicycle frames for five years (cumulative, over maybe a 10 year period). I'll probably leave tech for good at the end of the year and start a boutique bike frame company. EDIT: (clarified a timeframe)

How can I learn this? It's a dream job for me. I tinker with bikes endlessly and I've lost all my hair in tech.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#306

Post by importantbrian »

datacruncher01 wrote: post #119

US tech salaries are good for only one reason, the largest tech companies went the path of public stock valuations and paid employees with stock. If anything, it's an indicator of the vast difference in income for people who make a living with assets vs people who still need to trade their labor for a paycheck. Tech salaries are going to be on a decline for a while with the Fed rate hike, like it or not, most tech co…

Maybe in real terms, but there is quite a bit of research showing that nominal wages are sticky-down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_rigidity

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#307

Post by greenhatman »

throw1234651234 wrote: post #128
lrvick wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never hit a ceiling and most of my friends have not either. My income has increased significantly every year of my 20+ year career. There -are- ceilings within a given company though, which is why job changes every 1-2 years are pretty normal. Always another company willing to pay 30% more to gain niche experience you have that is stalling progress for them. When you do finally max out what any one company wil…

How do you jump jobs every 2 years if your shares don't vest for 4?

There is usually a 1 year cliff. So as long as you stay longer than a year, you're not losing out on any stock options.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#308

Post by IaacForHire »

potta_coffee wrote: post #305
IaacForHire wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, this is my plan to get out of tech. I've been welding bicycle frames for five years (cumulative, over maybe a 10 year period). I'll probably leave tech for good at the end of the year and start a boutique bike frame company. EDIT: (clarified a timeframe)

How can I learn this? It's a dream job for me. I tinker with bikes endlessly and I've lost all my hair in tech.

I was first inspired by this video that a friend of a friend made for a boutique frame builder in California.

http://soulcraftbikes.com

A decade later I sold a company and spent 3 months in Portland at https://bikeschool.com/. I took pretty much all of their classes. (Their wheel building seminar was fantastic, btw). Sadly they no longer teach welding, but the classes were fantastic. In each class you sized, laid out, machined and welded a bike. Started with lugged chromoly brazing, then chromoly fillet brazing, then chromoly tig, aluminum tin and finally titanium tig.

Unfortunately there are no bike schools in the world which have as comprehensive as a program as bikeschool did. I think they lost most of their teachers during Covid. Hoping they recover.

I ended up bringing 5 frames with me on the train home from PDX to Oakland. Over the next year I built another 15 frames for friends, then started a business building and selling custom, very durable bikes to overweight techies. It was great fun, we used to host weekend 25, 50 and 100 mile rides, nobody under 200lbs allowed. I lost $300 on every bike I made, but it was worth it.

Check out Paul Brodie's videos on YouTube, I am hoping to do a master class with him next year. https://www.youtube.com/c/paulbrodie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2CnJ9lmlQo really shows the beauty of fillet welding.

Also, I'm going to take a carbon fiber class here: https://www.framebuildingschool.com

Long story short: Go buy a couple of the cheapest throw-away bicycle frames you can. Get a brazing setup, then spend a few weeks cutting them up and learning how to join tubes solidly. Everything else is easy after that.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#309

Post by juve1996 »

giantg2 wrote: post #304
juve1996 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to provide another source other than your mythical friend. If it is that high, then there aren't many jobs there. I grew up in a blue collar household. My grandfather died of cancer he got from working in a steel mill, my dad has bad knees from working as a laborer (now an electrician.) He worked his life away to provide a better life for me. It's not about being "better." or elitism - It's just simple - co…

"if you think there aren't bad bosses in the trades" I never said that. "My grandfather died of cancer he got from working in a steel mill, my dad has bad knees from working as a laborer (now an electrician.)" Yeah, you can get diseases working in an office, or higher risk of cardiovascular events and cancers from being sedentary. "He worked his life away to provide a better life for me." Sounds emotional and possibl…

It seems like you just want to argue. You seem frustrated and deeply unhappy with your current job. I was that way, for times, too, so I get it.

You need to focus on what makes you happy. I don't want to dissuade you. But think long and hard about the change. Grass isn't always greener. But it can be. It may work out, it may not. The point is, it isn't a slam dunk.

Best of luck!

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#310

Post by mxuribe »

lrvick wrote: post #82
IaacForHire wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly outside of FAANG this is not the case at all. Total compensation out of non-faang is: Salary + worthless stock option and maybe a 3% 401k match if they're more than 5 years old.

I have never worked at FAANG and had no problem making 200k+ at several companies doing webdev, sysadmin, and security over the last decade. Same for most of my friends. Now I do independent consulting so I get to set my own pay and < 40 hours which is worth more to me than maximal income, but if you want to make 500k+ a year you totally can without working adtech or FAANG especially if you are independent with niche…

@lrvick My challenge with trying to leave my dayjob to do indie consulting has been finding my first, steady clients...at least enough to swap out for my dayjob. I have tried it the last few years as a side hustle, and while my tech and biz/ops skills are pretty good...my sales skills are not. Would you be willing to share how you got your clients, at least to the point of being able to live off of only your consulting work? (My email address is in my profile, if you wish to share less publicly.)
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