Investors sue Treasury Department for blacklisting crypto platform Tornado Cash • Hacker News Board

Re: Investors sue Treasury Department for blacklisting crypto platform Tornado Cash

#541

Post by sam0x17 » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 6:20 PM UTC

dpkirchner wrote: post #370

8note wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a controversial statement? That tends to be a law on the books

It's weird that they're calling the feds lazy at the same time as they argue against the feds having data they need to enforce laws. It's also weird that the Treasury Department has such influence over crypto when it is supposed to be decentralized. The anger is clearly misplaced.

It is lazy. It is lazy to just stop people on the street who look "sketchy" instead of actually investigating crimes. That is the moral equivalent of our current financial system. We used to have the right to look sketchy but we pissed that away years ago.

Re: Investors sue Treasury Department for blacklisting crypto platform Tornado Cash

#542

Post by andrewaylett » Sun, Sep 18, 2022, 12:19 PM UTC

andrewaylett wrote: post #531

TremendousJudge wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with Victorinox?

Nothing, I carried one from age 10. Victorinox split their pocket knives into three categories: small, medium, and large. Only the large are comparable in size to multitools, and they all seem to have locking blades. I'm actually pondering getting a basic medium-size pocket knife though, to complement what I'm carrying at the moment. Thank you for reminding me :).

I'm now the happy owner of a Victorinox "Walker".

Re: Investors sue Treasury Department for blacklisting crypto platform Tornado Cash

#543

Post by TEP_Kim_Il_Sung » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 8:06 AM UTC

salawat wrote: post #480

mr_spothawk wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does bitcoin store money? still waiting. > How is a bitcoin address meaningfully different from an account? Well, for one, it's only an address. Not a ledger. Bitcoin transactions point money at one or more address. Transactions, you might argue, are one-off ledgers. But then bitcoin is just a collection of those transactions & relevant/necessary data to support them them, compiled & validated using a variety of ma…

Bitcoin is a Convertible Virtual Currency. It is money. End of story. FINCEN has spoken.

Feds jail Doctor Bitcoin for selling on localbitcoins, even though he was registered with FINCEN

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/doctor-bitcoin-jailed-fo...

You just can't win with these people.

Re: Investors sue Treasury Department for blacklisting crypto platform Tornado Cash

#544

Post by salawat » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

adastra22 wrote: post #195

salawat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most ledgers are not public, or based on any methodology requiring public view, because the only way to both transact, keeping intact a tightly coherent paper trail as required by law is, and ensure privacy is to not make the ledger available in all it's glory to everyone. Doing what Tornado.cash does, is by definition, laundering, and if you didn't want your financial matters known to the world, mayhaps you should n…

Tornado cash does something different from money laundering. If you use TC you can actually provably undo the mixing and reveal your financial history to a third party. If the government came and asked “what’s the source of these funds?” You could open the commitment and show which input is yours. It just breaks the last model law enforcement is used to where they just siphon up all private financial data for their o…

In the U.S. this is a no go for criminal investigation, as there is no way law enforcement to compel you to offer up that proof that isn't able to fall under 5th Amendment protections, whereas Third Party Doctrine actually gave them a way to get at the tramsaction chain through the service provider. Now, unless you want to run into some creative reinterpretation of the 4th and 5th amendments a la the definitional butchering that is generally applied to the 2nd you can't push that question onto someone who is the subject of credible allegations of money laundering

Believe it or not, there is such a thing as a pointedly not implenented feature. This has been one of them, because it is the difference between essentially making financial crime tractable to investigate vs. not.

I'm not taking a side, just trying to make more obvious some of the more subtle nuance most people won't articulate for you, as it tends to be part of "the quiet part". You must employ 2nd and higher order thinking to the U.S. and international regulatory state.