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Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

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Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#91

Post by lotsofpulp »

yrgulation wrote: post #86
lrvick wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was 18 in rural America I had to do telemarketing and day labor in addition to webdev gigs to cover food and keep gas in the car I lived in. My income more than 10xed once I moved to Silicon Valley where my skills are in high demand. I do not think I know anyone technical making less than 6 figures here, with 200-600k being the norm for anyone with 10+ years of experience. In a post-covid world you can normall…

Tech pay is indeed high but not that high and it has a hard ceiling. Thanks to tech i manage to live a pretty decent life style, compared to shop assistants, or say daily construction workers. But going higher means i have to change careers and potentially go into tech business (which is not really tech, but business). A chartered accountant or lawyer, let alone surgeon, would earn as much as i do a day per hour with…

In the US, a surgeon would, but a “chartered” accountant or lawyer would have higher probabilities of not having as high of a pay to quality of life ratio.

Even the surgeon would have gone through hell during their 20s and maybe even lower 30s (their best years as a human) to command the $500k+ per year.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#92

Post by lotsofpulp »

IaacForHire wrote: post #51
yrgulation wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats odd. I know loads of lawyers living in mansions while loads of “highly paid” developers live with housemates, or rent tiny homes. If anything, software development pay has reached construction worker pay. At least we dont have to sit out in the cold.

I have a cousin who makes $220k as a crane operator at a port. I'll never make that much in my career.

What is the qualify of life at work like for a crane operator? Do their mistakes cost immediate loss of life, possibly even for themself? Do they work evenings, nights, and weekends? Can they work from home, or move to a new country at a whim?

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#93

Post by IaacForHire »

brandall10 wrote: post #76
IaacForHire wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I can believe that. The companies who hire for average senior engineers like me do not compete with FAANG. They hire the 90% of us who aren't rockstars and have accepted we have no upward mobility in our careers. I know very many devops/software engineers in San Francisco making $140k-$150k total comp.

Sure, the vast majority do. But to say that only a small handful of companies pay this is just untrue... it's probably in the high double or even triple digits. Many namebrand non-FAANG (ie. Linked-In, Uber, Snap, Slack) do, and some you might not even think of. One example - OpenDoor, which pays over $400k for a regular senior engineer. Additionally, it's not uncommon for small NYC fintechs to pay straight cash comp…

I think you might slightly underestimate the sheer # of companies and tech jobs in the Bay Area? I think Hacker News is an echo chamber when it comes to this because there are so many "rockstar" type engineers here.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#94

Post by IaacForHire »

silvestrov wrote: post #70
yrgulation wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Issue in denmark is that high pay gets heavily taxed. So 102k is what 50k at best? Factor in vat and its less.

So very wrong. $102k/year = DKK 759288/year = DKK 63274/month. Typing 63274 into https://hvormegetefterskat.dk (howmuchaftertax) says 40.2% tax rate. The you have to factor in $0 in health costs (gratis hospital and doctor visits), no payments for kids attending university, 32 weeks of paid maternal leave, and 5 weeks of mandatory holiday each year.

> The you have to factor in $0 in health costs (gratis hospital and doctor visits), no payments for kids attending university, 32 weeks of paid maternal leave, and 5 weeks of mandatory holiday each year.

This sounds great if you're the type to have a family. Otherwise, seems like you kind of get screwed?

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#95

Post by IaacForHire »

mrweasel wrote: post #85
IaacForHire wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago a Danish friend of mine said she'd hit a point where it wasn't worth taking a raise because of the progressive taxation system, and so instead she would negotiate for more benefits.

That's not how our tax system works. There are different intervals, so at some point you need to pay a higher percentage, but only of the amount above that point. This year it's 552.500DKK, anything you make ABOVE that, is taxed an additional 15%. So a raise will never leave you with less money. The amount is also adjusted yearly, so next year it normally higher, meaning that you are effectively taxed less. It is tru…

Well now I have a better idea of how much my friend makes (she's an exec at a big company). I just lost my sympathy for her.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#96

Post by IaacForHire »

yrgulation wrote: post #83
IaacForHire wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago a Danish friend of mine said she'd hit a point where it wasn't worth taking a raise because of the progressive taxation system, and so instead she would negotiate for more benefits.

I left denmark many moons ago for the same reason. Tipping point was when i wanted to buy a car. When i was the amount in tax i basically packed and left. Somehow people think that denmark is expensive because somehow products are better quality, but they arent really. It’s just high taxes. At hospitals you have to wait in long queues for anything serious and universities are meh. Paid for my public uk degree a very…

I feel you on this. I live in the 3rd world (Turkiye) and have been itching to buy a motorcycle lately. The $26k BMW 1250RT I want costs $35k here, and another $20k in taxes.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#97

Post by lrvick »

IaacForHire wrote: post #81
lrvick wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not with that attitude. If you are healthy, have people skills, and are capable of learning new things regularly then you can generally make as much as you want in this industry.

As a Sysadmin/DevOps engineer, I am expected to be an expert in some new paradigm every 2 years which I have done consistently for 25 years. Working hard and doing solid, consistent, useful work isn't enough to break through a salary ceiling. Not everybody is an influencer, an MIT grad or a genius.

I have a software engineering, sysadmin, and security background with 20 years of experience and I turn down opportunities of 250k+ frequently as I run my own company now which affords me more control of my time.

I have no degree and am no influencer or genius. I just never stop learning so I can be the one bringing new ideas to the meeting.

Your aversion to learning new things every 2 years sounds like a limiter. Even 2 years is too slow for this industry and probably why you feel capped.

I am no workaholic, averaging 35h weeks, but I try to learn a new skillset every month or so. If there is a gap I identify at an employer or client that will make me learn a new programming language, infra stack, or new vulnerability discovery technique, my hand always goes up first.

People are willing to pay more to those willing to run ahead into the dark and document a path for everyone else once they figure it out.

I know others who are more do-what-they-are-asked personalities, who work a lot more hours, but being simply experienced and reliable has earned them 50k+/year bumps every time they change jobs with good referrals and open source projects people can reference.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#98

Post by sdnas211 »

jheriko wrote: post #10
CommanderData wrote: post #9

European permanent salaries have been coming down. UK contractors take home less now than they did 5 years ago due to taxation changes (IR35). The tax changes have also made the market a bit strange where rates are still advertised at £500 a day even though, contractor takes home significantly less money. These have not gone up inline.

* dishonest and ethically corrupt contractors now take home less thanks to IR35. for the rest of us, it was a non-event.

Being inside IR35 I now take home less pay, have less flexibility, and I pay less tax (because rates have gone down across the board without the upward pressure that existed in the old system). Who wins? Only my employer.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#99

Post by silvestrov »

yrgulation wrote: post #73
silvestrov wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So very wrong. $102k/year = DKK 759288/year = DKK 63274/month. Typing 63274 into https://hvormegetefterskat.dk (howmuchaftertax) says 40.2% tax rate. The you have to factor in $0 in health costs (gratis hospital and doctor visits), no payments for kids attending university, 32 weeks of paid maternal leave, and 5 weeks of mandatory holiday each year.

There is no such thing as “free services”. You paid for them through taxes. Also you need to factor in vat and everything else being expensive due to taxes. Dont get me wrong, denmark looks great, but as many “rich” west eu countries the country is rich but the people arent.

And you need to factor in that Danish people do not need to pay for health services.

$50k after tax in Denmark needs to pay for fewer expenses than $50k after tax in USA.

So it is not a valid comparison to just compare income tax and VAT.

In this case Denmark ends up not being more expensive for a nice middle class life. It's just that ill-informed people thinks otherwise. Quality of life in Denmark is higher: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/quality-...

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#100

Post by mrweasel »

yrgulation wrote: post #89
mrweasel wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how our tax system works. There are different intervals, so at some point you need to pay a higher percentage, but only of the amount above that point. This year it's 552.500DKK, anything you make ABOVE that, is taxed an additional 15%. So a raise will never leave you with less money. The amount is also adjusted yearly, so next year it normally higher, meaning that you are effectively taxed less. It is tru…

Thats how the tax system works in any progressive tax system. I believe india has such a systen as well. Danish brackets are higher and so is every other tax.

So your boss wants to give you a $1000 raise, but you don't want it, because you'll only get the $400 and the rest is just tax? At no point will taking the $400 impact what you're already making or how it's taxed. Even the Danish government isn't stupid enough to implement a system where your existing income is reduced, because you get a raise.

Again I see the point if you're offered or able to get some kind of benefits or vacation time instead. That may easily be of greater value to you. That's just not often an option.

Edit: If it helps: A progressive tax is what the US have. India may as well, that I don't know.

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