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Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

krebsonsecurity.com

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Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#391

Post by ghaff »

naavis wrote: post #346
azinman2 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So should all parking meters be replaced? Paid for by tax payers? How would you implement something like that?

In many European countries parking is paid with a mobile app these days. Very few use parking meters.

It’s relatively common in the US as well but having backup is important for visitors, when apps need a forgotten password rentered etc. Way too many ticketing and other systems are way too unfriendly for the occasional user as it is without requiring that an app has to be used.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#392

Post by ghaff »

hunter2_ wrote: post #98
daniel-cussen wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a restaurant bill is in some sense a debt for the food that was already provided.

For sure, and I think even a cashless restaurant would take cash rather than let you leave for free. Presumably the ones truly refusing cash are the type that take payment before you incur any food debt.

Probably. Although they may not really be setup to handle it and presumably can’t make change.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#393

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

akira2501 wrote: post #38
gpt5 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contactless transactions using your phone are fast, secure and easy. Over time they will replace almost all current usage of chip & pin or magnetic stripe.

No thanks. I like things that work without having to be charged.

Or require an account from Apple or Google or other hurdles between me and my bank.

I now need a phone that I keep charged, up to date, with cellular connectivity, and logged into some tech behemoth in order to pay for goods?

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#394

Post by neilalexander »

ghaff wrote: post #390
Closi wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often do you have to do it though? It's only for high-value transactions (>£45) and the rest is contactless.

In Ireland I’ve had to enter a PIN for as little as 15 Euros. It’s very variable. Never run into this in Europe before and it’s been something of a pain because I don’t have a PIN on any of my personal cards. Fortunately I found I do have one on my corporate card.

The threshold varies between banks but there is often a limit as to how much you can spend or many times you can use "unverified" contactless payments (i.e. not Apple Pay which forces biometric verification) in a row before it will stop and demand a Chip+PIN transaction instead, to prevent someone who finds/steals a card from spending large amounts without ever needing to know the PIN.

For example, if the contactless limit is £100 and it only allows four contactless transactions in a row, the worst damage that can be done is £400, so banks and card issuers only need to manage the liability for fraudulent contactless transactions up to that amount (Visa and Mastercard call it "Zero Liability" protection).

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#395

Post by ghaff »

thehappypm wrote: post #102
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Already there are a (small) number of modern restaurants that don't accept cash in my area. Is that even legal?

Its illegal in Massachusetts

And yet there are restaurants that do it anyway.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#396

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

gtirloni wrote: post #227

> However, there are a great many smaller businesses in the United States that still rely on being able to swipe the customer’s card. Who are these businesses? Seriously, stop issuing cards without chips and send new card readers to theses businesses. End of story. Is it because US businesses use deeply embedded card readers in custom POS machines that aren't modular? Everywhere I go in South America and Europe, busi…

After the Target breach, the laws were finally changed and chip and signature was rolled out.

The deal with processors is this:

if you use chip + PIN or sig and there is fraud, it's on the processor (Visa/Mastercard, etc)

if you use swipe, it's on the retailer directly.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#397

Post by ridgered4 »

mindcrime wrote: post #230
Macha wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a few people in the US mention "when the chip isn't working". I don't think I've encountered this... ever? Of course, when the merchant's only alternative is handling cash, maybe there's more incentive to keep the card machine in order

At best I've found chip reading to work about 60% of the time across a range of local merchants here. And now the debit card I have, which is less than a year old, has a chip which has completely quit working. Making it totally useless for the (thankfully small) number of merchants whose POS systems won't let you fall back to mag-stripe when the chip fails. As far as I'm concerned, chip cards can get stuffed. They're…

I had a similar experience, but a clerk at a gas station wiped the chip edge of the card down and it worked on reinsertion. No idea how not really visible dirty (maybe from my very old wallet) was contributing to chip read failures but I have a much higher success rate after copying this fix.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#398

Post by hugobitola »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #387
sbarre wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you say this because you believe that Americans are exceptional compared to the rest of the world? Because the rest of the modern world has made the change without trouble.

it’s because american corporations put profit above all else, and someone probably crunched the numbers and determined that faster transactions make them more money despite higher occurrences of fraud

How could entering a 4 digit PIN be slower than "printing a piece of receipt, handing over a pen and waiting for the customer to sign"?

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#399

Post by ghaff »

Nursie wrote: post #361
Dalewyn wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, most credit cards don't have PINs and if one does nobody/nothing ever asks for it. Debit cards, however, are downright nazis about PINs.

That's why I said "in most countries". In most non-US countries credit cards enforce PIN usage the same way as your debit cards appear to.

Well except that debit cards always require PINs in the US and credit cards only sometimes do in eg Europe.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#400

Post by meragrin_ »

neilalexander wrote: post #354
NavinF wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of terminals in the US use chip, but I doubt the US will ever require pin numbers for credit card purchases. It's just too inconvenient. Banks are willing to eat the tiny reversed transactions in exchange for making the payment flow more efficient.

What about it is inconvenient? We've had Chip+PIN in the UK since 2006 and contactless payments since 2007 and it isn't inconvenient at all. Supporting card machines are everywhere and in addition portable card machines are extremely commonplace. Even in restaurants they just bring the card reader to the table and you either tap-to-pay or you put your card in and enter your PIN.

> What about it is inconvenient?

You have to remember not one, not two, not three, but several digits. Not only that. You have to look at a keypad. Oh, and you have to push buttons. Not once, not twice, but several times! Pity the poor fool who accidentally pushes the wrong button. More looking at a keypad and button pushing!

Yeah, I don't get it either. My only guess is the customer support calls for forgotten pins are more expensive to deal with than dealing with the incidents of fraud the pin would prevent.

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