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Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

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Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#81

Post by IaacForHire »

lrvick wrote: post #75
IaacForHire wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a cousin who makes $220k as a crane operator at a port. I'll never make that much in my career.

Not with that attitude. If you are healthy, have people skills, and are capable of learning new things regularly then you can generally make as much as you want in this industry.

As a Sysadmin/DevOps engineer, I am expected to be an expert in some new paradigm every 2 years which I have done consistently for 25 years. Working hard and doing solid, consistent, useful work isn't enough to break through a salary ceiling.

Not everybody is an influencer, an MIT grad or a genius.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#82

Post by lrvick »

IaacForHire wrote: post #29
Dig1t wrote: post #4

It’s TC (total compensation) that matters. Salaries haven’t changed a lot, but a lot of senior engineers at big companies are making 350k-400k a year total, most of which is stock. It vests every 6 months usually, in chunks of 50,70,100k. Usually there’s a bonus sometime in the year as well of anywhere from 15k-25k.

Sadly outside of FAANG this is not the case at all. Total compensation out of non-faang is: Salary + worthless stock option and maybe a 3% 401k match if they're more than 5 years old.

I have never worked at FAANG and had no problem making 200k+ at several companies doing webdev, sysadmin, and security over the last decade. Same for most of my friends.

Now I do independent consulting so I get to set my own pay and < 40 hours which is worth more to me than maximal income, but if you want to make 500k+ a year you totally can without working adtech or FAANG especially if you are independent with niche skillsets.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#83

Post by yrgulation »

IaacForHire wrote: post #74
mrweasel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that push salaries down? Should they be even higher in that case?

A few years ago a Danish friend of mine said she'd hit a point where it wasn't worth taking a raise because of the progressive taxation system, and so instead she would negotiate for more benefits.

I left denmark many moons ago for the same reason. Tipping point was when i wanted to buy a car. When i was the amount in tax i basically packed and left. Somehow people think that denmark is expensive because somehow products are better quality, but they arent really. It’s just high taxes. At hospitals you have to wait in long queues for anything serious and universities are meh. Paid for my public uk degree a very tiny amount and was rather happy with it.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#84

Post by varispeed »

Silhouette wrote: post #41
badpun wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

There are plenty of people working as contractors or freelancers in the UK who are without sin in this respect. Not everyone - or even most people - working independently is trying to evade tax. In fact financially most people would be better off as employees now if you directly compare salary with contract rates as if they meant the same thing. The big advantages of contracting and freelancing are about flexibility…

Independent contractors where not doing anything different than larger agencies. Same service, just with more attractive pricing.

The difference between a small business and agency is that agency can actually afford to properly avoid paying tax.

The taxes have been changed anyway, so the mythical small salary + dividend, does not offer meaningful advantage any more when it comes to tax.

The real problem is that IR35 removes profit from the company and the company has no way of offsetting legitimate business costs against tax (like your office, accountant, insurance, tools, software etc.) and you also can't retain part of the invoice and taking lower salary and dividend to have a cushion for the times out of clients or when you want to build capital for a start up idea.

It has completely killed entrepreneurship. It means less competition, less jobs and smaller growth of the economy. Not sure how is that a good idea.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#85

Post by mrweasel »

IaacForHire wrote: post #74
mrweasel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that push salaries down? Should they be even higher in that case?

A few years ago a Danish friend of mine said she'd hit a point where it wasn't worth taking a raise because of the progressive taxation system, and so instead she would negotiate for more benefits.

That's not how our tax system works. There are different intervals, so at some point you need to pay a higher percentage, but only of the amount above that point.

This year it's 552.500DKK, anything you make ABOVE that, is taxed an additional 15%. So a raise will never leave you with less money. The amount is also adjusted yearly, so next year it normally higher, meaning that you are effectively taxed less.

It is true that if you're only getting 35 - 40% of that raise, because the rest is just taxes, it might be of greater value to you to get more vacation time. Benefits are a little tricky, because they are taxed as well. I believe you could do extra pension, because that's taxed when it's paid out.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#86

Post by yrgulation »

lrvick wrote: post #65
yrgulation wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats odd. I know loads of lawyers living in mansions while loads of “highly paid” developers live with housemates, or rent tiny homes. If anything, software development pay has reached construction worker pay. At least we dont have to sit out in the cold.

When I was 18 in rural America I had to do telemarketing and day labor in addition to webdev gigs to cover food and keep gas in the car I lived in. My income more than 10xed once I moved to Silicon Valley where my skills are in high demand. I do not think I know anyone technical making less than 6 figures here, with 200-600k being the norm for anyone with 10+ years of experience. In a post-covid world you can normall…

Tech pay is indeed high but not that high and it has a hard ceiling. Thanks to tech i manage to live a pretty decent life style, compared to shop assistants, or say daily construction workers. But going higher means i have to change careers and potentially go into tech business (which is not really tech, but business). A chartered accountant or lawyer, let alone surgeon, would earn as much as i do a day per hour without really “solving problems” in a saturated market (i.e. those jobs dont open source their ip to the point where its worthless).

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#87

Post by ethbr0 »

hashar wrote: post #66
yrgulation wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A welder in london charges 700£ plus per day. A bit difficult to reach as a software engineer.

My place has a large shipyard and as story I got told is that good welder lands there with a private jet, do their welding then fly to the next place. I am guessing good welders have a niche market as well.

Great story, because it demonstrates what people often fail to think about in salary: your hypothetical maximum salary is bounded by the amount of value you add to the finished product.

If you're a key component (welder) in a high priced product (ship), the builder can compensate you $$$$ and still win. So they do.

You can temporarily have unreasonably high pay (higher than value added), but eventually the market will figure it out. The only way to make outsized returns your entire career is to find a supply-limited, high-value-add niche.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#88

Post by Firmwarrior »

IaacForHire wrote: post #81
lrvick wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not with that attitude. If you are healthy, have people skills, and are capable of learning new things regularly then you can generally make as much as you want in this industry.

As a Sysadmin/DevOps engineer, I am expected to be an expert in some new paradigm every 2 years which I have done consistently for 25 years. Working hard and doing solid, consistent, useful work isn't enough to break through a salary ceiling. Not everybody is an influencer, an MIT grad or a genius.

I'd never say this on Reddit, Facebook, or LinkedIn, but you're hanging out in Programmer Heaven right now, for fun, in your spare time. ANYONE hanging out here CAN definitely make a fat living in the SF Bay Area. Go out there and get rich!!! The only things I want to see you complaining about are interview loops, followed by the fact that you can barely afford a house on your $300k/year total compensation

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#89

Post by yrgulation »

mrweasel wrote: post #85
IaacForHire wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago a Danish friend of mine said she'd hit a point where it wasn't worth taking a raise because of the progressive taxation system, and so instead she would negotiate for more benefits.

That's not how our tax system works. There are different intervals, so at some point you need to pay a higher percentage, but only of the amount above that point. This year it's 552.500DKK, anything you make ABOVE that, is taxed an additional 15%. So a raise will never leave you with less money. The amount is also adjusted yearly, so next year it normally higher, meaning that you are effectively taxed less. It is tru…

Thats how the tax system works in any progressive tax system. I believe india has such a systen as well. Danish brackets are higher and so is every other tax.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#90

Post by doubled112 »

hashar wrote: post #66
yrgulation wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A welder in london charges 700£ plus per day. A bit difficult to reach as a software engineer.

My place has a large shipyard and as story I got told is that good welder lands there with a private jet, do their welding then fly to the next place. I am guessing good welders have a niche market as well.

Welders that can weld underwater are scarce and compensated accordingly.

My understanding is that it's dangerous and few want to do it.

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