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The Ethereum merge is done

coindesk.com

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Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#311

Post by can16358p »

rblion wrote: post #186

ELI5 anyone?

Ethereum was using an algorithm called "Proof of Work" to secure the blockchain's state and it was using huge amount of energy as it literally was using hashing power of GPUs to verify/generate Ethereum "blocks" (immutable units containing transactions) to get Ether as rewards.

The Merge changed this algorithm to "Proof of Stake", killing the GPU mining and the energy consumption completely (at least for Ethereum) and the new algorithm secures the network by giving incentives to Ether stakeholders (anyone can be, by the way) to secure the network instead of computing hashes on GPUs. This single event reduced world's energy usage by 0.2% overnight.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#312

Post by valzam »

leroman wrote: post #286
andruby wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a real proposal to turn BTC into PoS?

If this works for ETH, I don't believe there's a real reason why this couldn't work for BTC ** ** big asterisk here as I have spent no time trying to understand how they made it work for ETH and how/if this actually applies to BTC..

There are huge concerns over centralization. As it stands 2-3 entities (e.g. Lido, binance and Coinbase) over 50% of all validators. This is due to a mix of issues (no withdrawal making liquid staking very attractive, 32Eth limit leading to hugely inflates numbers of validators and no stake delegation creating the need for off chain pools). I would say there is about a 1-2% chance that BTC adopts PoS on a good day. Based on what Ethereum has delivered it's very close to 0.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#314

Post by russdill »

yread wrote: post #282
mckirk wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's easy: a 2kW Bitcoin miner heats your house just as well as a 2kW electric furnace. (I'm kidding but I'm also not; I'm regularly amazed by the fact that the most complex and intricate computational machines have exactly the same 'output' as the most basic 'heat this piece of metal' contraptions, when looked at as a blackbox.)

Have you heard of heatpumps?

Why do I suddenly hear some familiar jazz?

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#315

Post by boltzmann-brain »

salmonlogs wrote: post #279
phartenfeller wrote: post #273

I appreciate it wasting less precious energy. But this change also means that "Decentralisation" and "Power to the people" are fading away right? The wealthy actors are the ones dictating the transaction now and they also on top get paid for being rich. This does not sound like a "better financial system" for me. Also, don't forget the DAO Fork[0] where with the "ungovernable Blockhain" it was decided a transaction w…

Yep, a single digit amount of entities/wallets have majority control over the network. "64% of staked ETH controlled by five entities" https://cointelegraph.com/news/64-of-staked-eth-controlled-b...

That's like saying "100% of USA controlled by one entity" - except that in the US people are stuck with one president for four years no matter what, and when staking users can go stake with someone else at any time at all.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#316

Post by lambdadmitry »

What boggles my mind is that there is no withdrawal from staking and almost no one talks about it. That is, staking right now is a one way street with a promise to be able to withdraw some time in the future and returning only about 4% gross annually, which is laughably low for something that risky. It's well hidden in Ethereum press releases, the only mention I can quickly find is the FAQ entry titled 'Misconception: "The Merge enabled staking withdrawals."' here [1].

It's not just about transparency either. The whole system's security rests on game theory. Not being able to withdraw must affect incentives, which means the introduction of withdrawals will change the system in ways that were not tested yet.

[1]: https://ethereum.org/en/upgrades/merge/

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#317

Post by Yuioup »

The thing I've noticed about comments in a lot of HN threads about Crypto is that each comment posted is long, like really long and I'm none the wiser.

That raises alarm bells with me.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#319

Post by threeseed »

TimJRobinson wrote: post #99
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #47

I assume it has been debated again and again, but since I don't know the answer I'm going to ask: We often complain people hold cryptocurrencies instead of using them as money. Isn't this change going to make this worse ?

Ethereum isn't supposed to be money (though it can be), it's fuel you use for doing other things. Do people use less oil because it's deflationary and gets consumed when used? No, because it's useful now. The most likely end game for Ethereum is being a replacement for all backend financial systems. Instead of having to hire teams of people to verify things or integrate various legacy systems together, everyone can b…

Curious how many banks you've worked for. I've worked for a couple.

And they pride themselves on differentiating themselves in the market by offering specialised products and services.

Not sure why a bank would deliberately want to turn themselves into the equivalent of a reseller.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#320

Post by kaba0 »

Quindecillion wrote: post #287
shmde wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Great, now all that energy can be "wasted" rendering pixels with GPUs instead. Just like it was supposed to.

Point is the energy will still be spent and the carbon emitted if the grid is still primarily runs on fossil fuels. Energy use isn't the problem. Carbon emissions are. Green the grid, don't try to police people's energy use.

Energy production is flexible to a degree and it very much depends on energy usage. Up to 0.5% of the total energy usage of the word just disappeared overnight, so it is safe to claim that a big percentage of that difference won’t even be produced, decreasing carbon emission.
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