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Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

sst.dk

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Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#181

Post by logicchains »

peter422 wrote: post #128
scoofy wrote: post #63

I listen to TWiV, and the prominent virologists there are suggesting that we don't actually know what to do. In some of the latest episodes, they discuss frankly the fact that yearly boosters may or may not actually have any meaningful impact for normal healthy folks. They get into the details of why we know annual influenza boosters are effective, and that we really don't know yet whether COVID boosters will have th…

I really wish all the anti-vaxxer types would just listen to TWiV. The hosts and guests both openly and candidly talk about some of the disagreements they have with the prevailing public health guidelines while at the same time give so much detail and depth into virology and immunology so as to show how full of shit the big anti-vax misinformation peddlers are. So many anti-vaxxers say you can't have any disagreement…

>So many anti-vaxxers say you can't have any disagreements with the party line or you get cancelled and then these prominent experts at the top of their fields do it every week on TWiV and don't get cancelled (because they aren't full of shit).

On the one hand you say anti-vaxers are not cancelled but on the other hand you refer to them as full of shit. In spite of so many of their claims about the vaccine having been proven correct: it doesn't prevent transmission, it doesn't prevent severe covid or death, and for some age groups the risks outweigh the benefits: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4206070.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#182

Post by Dah00n »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #77
version_five wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really funny to see this kind of covid hero discussion where one accuses people who aren't ok with vaccine policies of being "conspiracy theorists" (ignoring the difference between disagreement with compelled vaccination and believing in some imagined conspiracy) and then getting a reply theorizing that there is a conspiracy amongst "adversaries of the west" that's driving disagreement with authoritarian vaccine…

https://www.state.gov/russias-pillars-of-disinformation-and-... > The media multiplier effect can, at times, create disinformation storms with potentially dangerous effects for those Russia perceives as adversaries at the international, national, and local level. In the past, Russia has leveraged this dynamic to shield itself from criticism for its involvement in malign activity. This approach also allows Russia to b…

I don't disagree with you but using US sources when talking about Russian disinformation is like using Russian sources when talking about US disinformation.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#183

Post by michaelmrose »

rossdavidh wrote: post #10

Bit by bit, it is becoming the new influenza. Not saying we're there yet, but that's clearly where we're headed. Now, influenza kills lots of people; in 2018 over 60,000 people were killed by influenza in the USA alone. But we don't have border closing or "show your papers" or all the rest for influenza, and we're not going to.

We change strategies based on the expected cost/benefit of different strategies. The expected cost of covid is much higher than the flu and may be much higher for decades. We are basically never fully getting back to normal unless the cost of spreading your sneeze around gets back to where it was in 2019.

Instead we are looking at plentiful deaths and accumulating damage courtesy of even mild infections. We aren't actually going back.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#184

Post by lovich »

logicchains wrote: post #181
peter422 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish all the anti-vaxxer types would just listen to TWiV. The hosts and guests both openly and candidly talk about some of the disagreements they have with the prevailing public health guidelines while at the same time give so much detail and depth into virology and immunology so as to show how full of shit the big anti-vax misinformation peddlers are. So many anti-vaxxers say you can't have any disagreement…

>So many anti-vaxxers say you can't have any disagreements with the party line or you get cancelled and then these prominent experts at the top of their fields do it every week on TWiV and don't get cancelled (because they aren't full of shit). On the one hand you say anti-vaxers are not cancelled but on the other hand you refer to them as full of shit. In spite of so many of their claims about the vaccine having bee…

He didn’t say they weren’t cancelled, he said that their claim that you can’t have any disagreements with the party line or you get cancelled.

Anti vaxxers tend to not discuss nuanced details and instead come out with unsubstantiated claims like “vaccines cause autism” which is going to get most people to stop listening to them

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#185

Post by Barrin92 »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #175
Barrin92 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that discourse is already reflected in the consensus on who to vaccinate which is presented to you on that site as far as Denmark goes. Doctors don't just wing it, they go by those very same research results. Doctors may disagree about individual cases of disease, they don't disagree at all about who to vaccinate, they follow guidelines.

"Oh, there's broad consensus because everybody follows the same document" looks worse , not better, than there being disagreement. Broad consensus based on the merits > Internal disagreement > broad consensus based on "guidelines".

the only way to judge whether a vaccine has merit is by evaluating population level statistics on its risks and benefits. You either match the profile or you don't. There's nothing any individual doctor can add, that's not how vaccinations work. On what basis is a physician supposed to reject a vaccine when it would be indicated by the data, they just feel like it?

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#187

Post by michaelmrose »

rossdavidh wrote: post #85
Kranar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2018 was an exceptionally bad year for influenza. Typically influenza deaths in the U.S. are between 20-30k. COVID deaths in the U.S. over a two year period amounted to over 1 million.

This chart from CDC shows deaths from all causes: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm It still (just barely) shows part of the 2018 influenza spike, which is pretty similar to where we were at in July (note that the last few weeks on this chart are likely to come up a bit, but from what I've seen they don't rise much once they're 2-3 weeks old). Now it's always possible that the winter will b…

People are getting regularly re-infected and sustaining progressive damage with substantially increasing risks of cardiovascular damage.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#188

Post by logicchains »

michaelmrose wrote: post #180
samuel wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several kinds of anti-vaxxers. It's easy to focus on the tinfoil hat kind but there are others that just kept an skeptic outlook and were equally by the ridiculized by media, when not directly accussed of being accomplices of homicide (I'm talking about Spain here, may be in other countries the situation was different). True experts' doubts just reinforce their positions instead of weakening them, IMO. For…

There actually really isn't any difference between the two groups. They differ only in how they articulate the same bad logic. Vaccines became broadly available in relatively wealthy countries in 2021 wherein the only reasonable position would have been that vaccination of all groups would decrease net mortality even among those unlikely to die and reduce damage to people's bodies that we were already seeing even wit…

>Vaccines became broadly available in relatively wealthy countries in 2021 wherein the only reasonable position would have been that vaccination of all groups would decrease net mortality even among those unlikely to die and reduce damage to people's bodies that we were already seeing even with mild infections of otherwise healthy people.

It's not necessarily a reasonable position when the clinical trials themselves showed an unusually large rate of adverse events in vacinees vs the placebos: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X2.... The bad logic is the logic that it's okay to assess the efficiency of a novel therapeutic by the protection it provides against infection rather than by it's overall effect on excess mortality, as such an approach is going to miss any safety signals.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#189

Post by Dah00n »

kyleblarson wrote: post #27
sterlind wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's just rolled out an inhaled vaccine, and having vaccines that target the nasal passages specifically seem very promising for preventing infection. If I could, I'd get that vaccine.

China is certainly trustworthy on this topic.

As compare to? The US? WHO? Everyone has an agenda.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#190

Post by phtrivier »

Headline slightly misleading. It will be interpreted as "vaccine too dangerous for under 50".

Here Denmark will keep vaccinating young relatives of people at risk. Which may make sense, or not. Who knows ? Even all doctors are not 100% confident about anything anymore.

At least it goes slighly against the narrative of "everyone's government is deep in the pocket of big pharma", and more into the narrative of "everyone is trying whatever"

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