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FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

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Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#61

Post by thrdbndndn »

aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #57
thrdbndndn wrote: post #33

I personally can't care less about 32-bit, but unfortunately a few digital music stores I buy from use this format (delivered in WAV). And I don't want to downscale them simply for archival reasons. Now I can at least re-compress them losslessly in FLAC. (previously I have to use Wavpack, which isn't bad but I'd prefer to have a single format in my media library.)

Boomkat?

I've heard of that too, but in my case it's batch of Japanese distributors like e-onkyo [1] or Ototoy [2].

[1] https://www.e-onkyo.com/music/ [2] https://ototoy.jp/top/

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#62

Post by retcore »

dsr_ wrote: post #54
retcore wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This unfortunately discontinued mic could comfortably exceed your claimed limits: https://en-de.neumann.com/d-01 156 dB max spl 86 dB snr 130 dB dynamic range Neumann patented a dual ADC preamp to make this possible.

86dB signal-to-noise.

As noted in my third para :~)

Additionally from the product page:

"Unprecedented fidelity and detail, 130 dB dynamic range"

I've just realized that the product page I linked is extremely unusual for stating a dynamic range value.

However this makes sense if you read the papers covering Neumann's dual ADC and pre design of which they were justifiably proud. System D was a mid nineties introduction.

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#64

Post by messe »

pavon wrote: post #59
colejohnson66 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What data are you compressing?

A variety of sensor data. Nothing coming straight off an ADC needs 32-bits, but I do have need for it in various cases. * The sensor system wants to do unit conversion for me. This data doesn't really have 32-bits of dynamic range, but for archival purposes I'd like to store the exact bits without adding another quantization step - that can happen later. * The sensor system combines multiple ADC channels HDR style. I…

I'm kinda curious. What kind of sensors? (If you're able to divulge it that is; which given how you've phrased it, I wouldn't be surprised if you're under NDA or similar)

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#65

Post by ska »

mywittyname wrote: post #53
nimish wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used it to record oscilloscope captures. Especially useful since audio cards are cheap high res adc's.

I'm amazed that consumer-grade audio cards are still available and cheap, to be honest. I can't recall having seen one in years, then again, I haven't had a reason to look for them in years either.

Pretty common for any hobbiest who wants to record things too.

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#66

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

Finally! I can ditch away 32b special casing in my project cleanup and backup automation! As much as I love WavPack[1] (it's great and has 32 bit integer/fp support since forever), Flac is much faster and probably more future-proof. Thanks a lot everyone at XIPH, your work really makes a difference.

Edit: oops, I can't. No fp support yet.

1. https://www.wavpack.com/

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#67

Post by mixmastamyk »

thrdbndndn wrote: post #33

I personally can't care less about 32-bit, but unfortunately a few digital music stores I buy from use this format (delivered in WAV). And I don't want to downscale them simply for archival reasons. Now I can at least re-compress them losslessly in FLAC. (previously I have to use Wavpack, which isn't bad but I'd prefer to have a single format in my media library.)

ffmpeg can downsample audio to a more manageable rate. I use it to reduce hi-res flacs to 16-48, which cuts it down to a ~third of its original size and is supported in my car stereo and everywhere else. Can't tell any difference on playback.

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#68

Post by [deleted] »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #12
_joel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nyquist Shannon theorem, sure. There are situations where you'd use 32bit audio but not for mastered music you'd listen to at home really. Although people still won't believe you, hence the market for thousand dollar cables and other snake oil.

From my understanding, doesn't Nyquist-Shannon assume you take infinite steps to refine the discrete steps into the final waveform? Since real-world DACs don't have infinite taps, either increasing the number of samples per second in the original audio or the number of steps done by the filter will improve how close it gets to the original waveform. Would that apply to the number of bits used to represent the level a…

[deleted]

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#69

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #27
colejohnson66 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct; lossless formats aren't needed by the average consumer. But the problem they solve is a very real thing. Think of the difference between a repeatedly edited JPG vs. a repeatedly edited PNG. Every save of the JPG destroys information irretrievably, whereas every save of the PNG keeps it all. It's the same with MP3 vs. FLAC: MP3 throws away information each export, but FLAC doesn't. For an example, musi…

(I think) They're not saying FLAC is pointless, just that 32 bit audio is. Even music producers record and export at 24bit, 32/64bit is only used for the effects and mixing (because compounding quantization noise and rounding errors is very real). You can't find 32 bit PCM music anywhere, even hifi DVD audio is 24bit/96khz.

> You can't find 32 bit PCM music anywhere

The real reason is that there's no 32-bit floating point digital audio converters, so distributing the audio in a format which needs to be quantized to be played anyway has no purpose (outside of deceptive marketing, of course).

Even integer 32 bit makes no sense for a final format - the available noise floor is just beyond reasonable, 24 bit is more than enough. In practice, 16 bit is too.

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#70

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

atoav wrote: post #5
michaelwww wrote: post #3

After reading "How Music Works" by David Byrne, it seem like FLAC is solving the wrong problem. No one needs over 4 billion discrete levels.

I am a recording engineer and I will choose 32 bits over 24 any day when recording. Of course you need the right (exceptionally good!) preamps to even make a difference here, but when you are manipulating audio 32 bits and upwards (for summing) are the default (for a reason). Having something to store those files with a little bit of lossless compression is a welcome addition

> I will choose 32 bits over 24 any day when recording.

There's probably no point since your audio interface doesn't produce 32 bit audio anyway.

For transient formats it's another story: if a bit of audio gets re-printed multiple times with some processing between renders, then it's beneficial to store it in a DAW-native format (32/64 fp) to avoid quantization or multiple additions of dither noise. For recording you just waste space.

> Having something to store those files with a little bit of lossless compression is a welcome addition

You'd probably want to store 32/64 bit floating point, and WavPack works really well. On comparable formats it achieves ratios really on par with Flac.

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