Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#241

Post by Antrikshy » Wed, Sep 14, 2022, 7:05 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #205

jballer wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“We avoided firing people who aren’t white” vs “we preferred firing people who are white.” This school of thought purports to agree that harmful impact supersedes good intent. They just refuse to recognize the individual as the ultimate minority.

Or, more charitably, "We avoided laying off racial/oppressed minorities for racist/bigoted reasons"

That should be a given. Why even bring it up?

It's like saying "I'm not racist" before doing something unrelated.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#242

Post by replygirl » Wed, Sep 14, 2022, 7:05 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #230

replygirl wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what conservative code words?

“Woke culture gone wild”

woke came out of aave and was more widely popularized in 2014 via blm

edit: parent edited from "woke" to "woke culture gone wild" after i posted this

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#243

Post by peanuty1 » Wed, Sep 14, 2022, 7:06 PM UTC

trention wrote: post #135

So, a company explicitly states that when push comes to shove, if you are white, you move to the front of the firing queue. Remind me again, why would a white person (especially man) not put them on the back of the queue when deciding where to apply for a job? Despite not living in the states (and in a country where this sh*t is illegal), I think I will make it my policy to never work for a (parent) company that has…

In tech, Indians and East Asians are also not considered a minority.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#244

Post by ransom1538 » Wed, Sep 14, 2022, 7:08 PM UTC

John23832 wrote: post #34

(I am a black man) I feel like the statement that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens" puts a target on the backs of the people who you claim to be helping. If you're affected by layoffs described this way, you then question whether that was because of who you are. That then makes it harder for the minorities you claim to be "helping" to stay in the room anywhere else because of…

"I feel like the statement that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens" puts a target on the backs of the people who you claim to be helping."

How do they know who is what race though? If I am 50% latino / 50% asian what does that mean? Do you get to pick? Or do they test my skin color? Do they have forms to fill out what race you are? Do they do genetic testing? Depressing racism is back.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#245

Post by taurath » Wed, Sep 14, 2022, 7:09 PM UTC

replygirl wrote: post #242

taurath wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Woke culture gone wild”

woke came out of aave and was more widely popularized in 2014 via blm edit: parent edited from "woke" to "woke culture gone wild" after i posted this

It’s literally in the platform of the Republican Party to “fight woke culture”

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#246

Post by the_doctah » Wed, Sep 14, 2022, 7:09 PM UTC

anonym29 wrote: post #18

Anyone else read the letter from the CEO where they claim that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens"? That's verbatim from the actual PDF, in case anyone was curious ( https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001447669/5c6aa73... ) Page 6, under the heading "How did we decide which roles would be impacted". I wonder what race they deliberately targeted for these layoffs, with la…

>Oh well, I guess we'll never know.

Until the discovery phase

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#247

Post by howinteresting » Wed, Sep 14, 2022, 7:09 PM UTC

anonym29 wrote: post #148

howinteresting wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

To imply there is absolutely no overlap between the group of people espousing CRT and the group of people who believe the world would be a better place if every white person spontaneously died is to be willfully ignorant of an unfortunate reality. We should be taking the opportunity to disavow the latter on behalf of the good intentions of the former.

[flagged]

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#248

Post by abduhl » Wed, Sep 14, 2022, 7:10 PM UTC

gitfan86 wrote: post #227

vondur wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure if you are white and laid off, you will have a pretty strong case for a lawsuit. I can't believe someone in legal wouldn't warn the leadership that putting out a press release stating this was a good idea.

Legal probably approved the word "lens". And if this ends up in court they will say that "lens" means that we are aware of the impact layoffs have on our society, but does not change who we fire during a layoff, meaning even if we didn't do this through a lens the person suing would have still been let go.

Then the laid off employees should organize as a class action so that "this specific person would have been let go" is no longer an acceptable defense and the question can be focused on whether using a "lens" to fire people based on race is illegal. If they argue that the lens means something else or that they didn't use the lens then Twilio has potentially just filed a materially false statement with the SEC.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#249

Post by conductr » Wed, Sep 14, 2022, 7:10 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #48

romeros wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were overhiring. I talked to their recruiter last year. They had pretty aggressive hiring goals. Same story with Zillow, Upstart, Facebook and a bunch of companies. All of their stocks tanked by more than 50% since then.

Why would a business even have a "hiring goal?" Shouldn't you have business goals, and then look at those business goals and determine if hiring will contribute to them? Having an isolated "hiring goal" seems as pointless as having a "printer buying goal".

Goals can change. Especially when your stock price gets cut in half and a recession is imminent.

Even in the world of StableCo annual budgets, by the time the budget is approved, I guarantee it reflects a number of goals that have been recently axed. Or, in times of growth, there’s other goals that have come up and claimed some resources that technically were earmarked for something else. Budgets and goals are fluid.

Also hiring goals are useful for measuring activities. They have an HR/talent acquisition team and that team needs goals. How would you frame those goals if not hiring? And , unfortunately, printer purchases is a real business goal if your the guy responsible for purchasing printers.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#250

Post by claudiawerner » Wed, Sep 14, 2022, 7:10 PM UTC

skyyler wrote: post #166

csa wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You refer to the original/early version of CRT. In the 90s and beyond, CRT has expanded substantially in scope. It has also changed focus in terms of how it is utilized.

Could you recommend some texts responsible for the change in scope? My understanding of CRT is that race is entirely a social construction, and that the laws and attitudes surrounding race are primarily informed by this social construction and not anything with real biological basis. When did that change?

That's not really a good understanding - it may seem pedantic, but legal theorists and sociologists have very little to say about the 'real biological basis' of race; it's simply not within their purview. However, it may be used as an assumption or presupposition or not considered at all.

You mentioned 'and that the laws and attitudes surrounding race are primarily informed by this social construction' which correctly describes CRT, but it doesn't have anything to do with the biology (or lack thereof) of race.