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Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

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Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#231

>Twilio had 7,867 employees as of Dec. 31, 2021. Every single layoff story stupefies me. Confuses. Flabbergasts. What are these companies doing with so many people? What are they doing? Like, what are their day-to-day tasks? My employer has more people but we build nuclear reactors and spacecraft. Our revenue per employee is nearly double Twilio's and is low for a "tech" firm due to the extremely high capital costs a…

I wrote about what drives this previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32171468

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Civil Rights Movement's hard-won successes in the 1960s were essentially the beginning of something resembling equality-before-the-law for black folks in the US, and it's still well within living memory. Mind, I'm also not particularly comfortable with racist hiring practices, no matter who's being targeted. Just pointing out that widespread de jure inequality based on race, plus various extremely-racist pract…

Thank you, this is very well written. I'd also just like to highlight how much extrajudicial violence there was perpetrated by white men against minorites, which while technically illegal was just completely overlooked by the white male dominated political and judicial system. For example the Tulsa Race Massacre. I mean just look at Ahmaud Arbery, whose 3 white male murderers were initially not arrested or charged wi…

> Thank you, this is very well written.

Thanks! Was trying to keep it concise and tight enough to be both informative and interesting to someone who's not American, while still hitting the "highlights", especially the relative recency of outright racist laws and of how recently private and public racial discrimination was legal (if not always required by law) and normal.

> I'd also just like to highlight how much extrajudicial violence there was perpetrated by white men against minorites, which while technically illegal was just completely overlooked by the white male dominated political and judicial system. For example the Tulsa Race Massacre.

... which is why I didn't even try to cover these instances of what I guess could be grouped together as something like "civil strife", which actions were or are explicitly outside the law, not simply not-illegal, but have been or are often tolerated or overlooked, but you're absolutely right to bring them up.

In the case of the Civil Rights Movement it wasn't only (though, to be clear, it was mostly) black people being killed by racists, often with no consequences for the perpetrators—several white participants in civil rights marches and rallies were also targeted and murdered. Often Quakers or (IIRC?) Catholics, participating in part due to their religious convictions—the whole "social justice" angle held greater sway in US Catholicism then than it does now, I gather, which was also evident in the anti-war movement of the 60s and 70s. These killings weren't legal, of course, and I expect they'd have been quite unpopular if you'd polled the whole US population, but such actions had enough support locally, including among public officials, that many of the killers escaped justice anyway, so long as the killings were in the name of preserving white supremacy, even if that meant killing some white people, too.

A read over a Wikipedia timeline of 1960s US history is pretty wild—the entire decade was batshit crazy, not to put too fine a point on it.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself very ‘liberal’ per American standards (pro abortion, pro lgbt rights, pro racial diversity and acceptance), and this to me screams of woke culture gone wild. Looks like anything can be weaponised.

Quoted post unavailable.

It's not your place to tell other people what you think they actually believe. Woke/wokism is common parlance. As an atypical lefty soc dem, I also have a strong distaste for wokeoids and don't feel like I need to cowtow to everything everyone says on "my side".

edit: I'm stunned that you are unaware of how fractured the left is politically. If you consider it for a moment, the left is definitionally fractured. We want change, but what change? There are a million answers and many people think they have the perfect full solution in their head.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#234

This line seems to be referenced a lot in these comments: > Layoffs like this can have a more pronounced impact on marginalized communities, so we were particularly focused on ensuring our layoffs – while a business necessity today – were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens. Sounds like they are taking steps to make sure whoever was chosen for layoffs were not chosen for racist reasons. But so man…

See what Dr. Kendi is advocating for and his "anti-racist" ideas. I think it will make sense to you why some people write things like "People have lost their damn minds. This is actual institutionalized racism."

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#235
post #179
post #118

This is not going to be a pretty thread. Hopefully we can keep this civil and maybe move the conversation forward, as this could be a big tipping point in the landscape wrt DEI.

> and maybe move the conversation forward What does this actually mean, in the context of "when we fired people, we considered their race"?

Or, "when we fired people, we tried NOT to consider their race" ... the idea that a layoff would, by default, be fair and not a racist or bigoted decision is a very privileged world view.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#236

Anyone else read the letter from the CEO where they claim that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens"? That's verbatim from the actual PDF, in case anyone was curious ( https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001447669/5c6aa73... ) Page 6, under the heading "How did we decide which roles would be impacted". I wonder what race they deliberately targeted for these layoffs, with la…

Anyone who actually believes that, I've got an array of bridges to sell you. People doing layoffs will say anything they can to make the fact that they just laid people off seem better, more fair, whatever. This is just the latest attempt at that. It looks as ridiculous as every other attempt throughout history.

Pretty easy to come up with ways this could work that are not ridiculous. Let's say you come up with a list of people to lay off. Let's say someone slices that list by demographics. Let's say someone compares that demographic distribution with the overall demographic distribution of the company and is embarrassed by what they see.

Then the CEO revisits, and changes the decisions or overrules an underling on a few cases about who to lay off to make things less embarrassing.

I don't know that that's what happened here, but is that really so unthinkable for a woke tech company in 2022 to do? For a company clearly concerned with how it's publicly perceived on this front?

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This creates three problems. The first is that some white people who were affected will believe it was because of their race. The second is that minorities who were not affected may be assumed to have been kept because of their minority status. But the most harmful is for minorities who were laid off. That signals that they were really subpar, even more than the average laid off person. It seems like this policy has…

Is the first problem not the immediate implication of laying people off through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens? You have to assume that the lens selected not exclusively on merit, but also on factors like race, gender, orientation, or creed, in some measure, or in at least one instance. Otherwise, the lens could be said the exist, ever vigilant in its purpose, and yet was not required in this particular batch of…

They say anti-racist but they really just mean racist. They are taking race into account when making staffing decisions. It's as illegal as the extra "side pot" of raise money my company has for diverse employees.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#238

Mostly in "Go-To-Market". Same as Patreon I don't even know what that is, but sounds like a money pit.

Go-To-Market or often referred to as GTM is a common term used within the B2B SAAS space. The term is thrown around quite a bit if you work in that sector. Like others said, it is primarily concerned with all things revenue (obtaining and retaining).

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#239

(I am a black man) I feel like the statement that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens" puts a target on the backs of the people who you claim to be helping. If you're affected by layoffs described this way, you then question whether that was because of who you are. That then makes it harder for the minorities you claim to be "helping" to stay in the room anywhere else because of…

A Minnesota public school district created a plan to prioritize laying off white teachers. https://nypost.com/2022/08/17/minneapolis-schools-defend-pla...

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#240
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It's not your place to tell other people what you think they actually believe. Woke/wokism is common parlance. As an atypical lefty soc dem, I also have a strong distaste for wokeoids and don't feel like I need to cowtow to everything everyone says on "my side". edit: I'm stunned that you are unaware of how fractured the left is politically. If you consider it for a moment, the left is definitionally fractured. We wa…

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