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Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

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Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#51

Post by overtonwhy »

enumjorge wrote: post #35
anonym29 wrote: post #18

Anyone else read the letter from the CEO where they claim that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens"? That's verbatim from the actual PDF, in case anyone was curious ( https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001447669/5c6aa73... ) Page 6, under the heading "How did we decide which roles would be impacted". I wonder what race they deliberately targeted for these layoffs, with la…

It feels like you're trying to flamebait rather than have a discussion about this. I encourage people to read comments on the other related thread [1] that seems to have disappeared from the front page for some reason. [1] Twilio cutting 11% – Letter from CEO [pdf]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837250

Bunch of new accounts commenting doing it too.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#52

Post by porker »

tmpz22 wrote: post #27
bearjaws wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much did Twilio grow from 2020-2022? Over 200%: from 2,800 staff to 8,510 ... This means this 11% reduction leaves them at... 292% growth since 2020, while its not amazing news, this is a small reduction given the growth they've had. These layoffs were inevitable IMO, everyone doubled their team (or more!) and then asked where the money was going to come from.

How the **CK are these companies training and onboarding and managing all these new hires in such short a time frames?

By hiring additional 'resources' to train and onboard and manage all these new hires

It's *CKing crazy. Reminds me of government

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#53

Post by LegitShady »

John23832 wrote: post #34

(I am a black man) I feel like the statement that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens" puts a target on the backs of the people who you claim to be helping. If you're affected by layoffs described this way, you then question whether that was because of who you are. That then makes it harder for the minorities you claim to be "helping" to stay in the room anywhere else because of…

>If you're affected by layoffs described this way, you then question whether that was because of who you are.

I mean, this isn't a question. They're saying it outright. When picking who to layoff, race was a factor. If you don't like it, take it up with people making those decisions.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#54

Post by ucm_edge »

tmpz22 wrote: post #27
bearjaws wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much did Twilio grow from 2020-2022? Over 200%: from 2,800 staff to 8,510 ... This means this 11% reduction leaves them at... 292% growth since 2020, while its not amazing news, this is a small reduction given the growth they've had. These layoffs were inevitable IMO, everyone doubled their team (or more!) and then asked where the money was going to come from.

How the **CK are these companies training and onboarding and managing all these new hires in such short a time frames?

That is why we see layoffs like these. You just layoff the people that didn’t successfully self onboard and/or are unqualified but slipped through your screening.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#55

Post by crackercrews »

John23832 wrote: post #34

(I am a black man) I feel like the statement that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens" puts a target on the backs of the people who you claim to be helping. If you're affected by layoffs described this way, you then question whether that was because of who you are. That then makes it harder for the minorities you claim to be "helping" to stay in the room anywhere else because of…

This creates three problems. The first is that some white people who were affected will believe it was because of their race. The second is that minorities who were not affected may be assumed to have been kept because of their minority status.

But the most harmful is for minorities who were laid off. That signals that they were really subpar, even more than the average laid off person.

It seems like this policy has two negative impacts on minorities and only one on white people. Some would say that's a disparate effect on minorities, and the policy is therefore racist. /s

edit: these are just the perception problems. There's also the fact that it is possibly illegal and unethical.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#56

Post by nemo44x »

anonym29 wrote: post #18

Anyone else read the letter from the CEO where they claim that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens"? That's verbatim from the actual PDF, in case anyone was curious ( https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001447669/5c6aa73... ) Page 6, under the heading "How did we decide which roles would be impacted". I wonder what race they deliberately targeted for these layoffs, with la…

Clearly a Civil Rights violation. I hope everyone impacted that isn't "marginalized" sues them for millions of dollars.

We either have equality codified as Civil Rights law and respect that or we don't have it all and we are free to associate with people we want to in every respect. But you need to pick one.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#57

Post by anonym29 »

zwkrt wrote: post #50
anonym29 wrote: post #18

Anyone else read the letter from the CEO where they claim that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens"? That's verbatim from the actual PDF, in case anyone was curious ( https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001447669/5c6aa73... ) Page 6, under the heading "How did we decide which roles would be impacted". I wonder what race they deliberately targeted for these layoffs, with la…

Crucify me for being woke, but I feel like getting upset at this statement is overblown. There is no way that there was a 'white people quota' or anything like that (which would not be 'anti racist'). Charitably, 'anti-racist' just means not turning a blind eye to the real and/or perceived racial outcomes of your decisions. If most of your QA testers are Vietnamese and you cut your whole QA department, it can come of…

I'll believe this was actually racially blind when Twilio releases a count of each race that was laid off, and the sum of each race for employees in the company prior to the layoff. It's very simple for everyone to verify whether there was racial targeting outside the statistically probable bounds of random selection from the parent group.

I have no problem with people being woke as long as we're both working towards a provable shared reality with data rather than rhetoric.

Humans lie. Sufficient amounts of data analyzed by a suficient number of people do not.

Assuming it was possible to look at the data I call for above, would you be opposed to the public dissemination and analysis of it?

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#58

Post by pc86 »

UtopiaPunk wrote: post #32
anonym29 wrote: post #18

Anyone else read the letter from the CEO where they claim that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens"? That's verbatim from the actual PDF, in case anyone was curious ( https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001447669/5c6aa73... ) Page 6, under the heading "How did we decide which roles would be impacted". I wonder what race they deliberately targeted for these layoffs, with la…

Throwing people out on the street is tough, but at least we destroy people's livelihoods ~progressively~. All CEOs are bastards.

> Throwing people out on the street is tough, but at least we destroy people's livelihoods ~progressively~.

> All CEOs are bastards.

Imagine turning a perfectly valid criticism into some weird anti-capitalist thing?

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#59

Post by bena »

anonym29 wrote: post #18

Anyone else read the letter from the CEO where they claim that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens"? That's verbatim from the actual PDF, in case anyone was curious ( https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001447669/5c6aa73... ) Page 6, under the heading "How did we decide which roles would be impacted". I wonder what race they deliberately targeted for these layoffs, with la…

I really couldn't say because I can see how that language can be used to defend whatever decision you want to make.

Whether you fire star-bellied sneetches or non-star-bellied sneetches, you can just blame the algorithm. "Yes, the star-bellied sneetches were disproportionately affected and while that is tragic, we did carry it through a lens, so you know, we're good, right?"

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#60

Post by John23832 »

LegitShady wrote: post #53
John23832 wrote: post #34

(I am a black man) I feel like the statement that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens" puts a target on the backs of the people who you claim to be helping. If you're affected by layoffs described this way, you then question whether that was because of who you are. That then makes it harder for the minorities you claim to be "helping" to stay in the room anywhere else because of…

>If you're affected by layoffs described this way, you then question whether that was because of who you are. I mean, this isn't a question. They're saying it outright. When picking who to layoff, race was a factor. If you don't like it, take it up with people making those decisions.

It is still a question. There could people who are clearly not performing and then are let go that just so happen to not be a part of the "protected group". People are not being let go because of who they are, it's just a part of the calculus. It may not be the significant factor.
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