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“Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

audiosciencereview.com

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Re: “Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

#271

Post by acallaha »

orangetuba wrote: post #177

There is a lot of talk about DIY here, which sounds cool, but I'm also pretty lazy and I have started way too many projects. What are some really underestimated systems that you can buy?

As an example, these $50 headphones just released, co-designed by respected headphone reviewer Crinacle - he measures headphones on an expensive rig simulating the human ear, which can then be used to EQ the headphones to comply with a standard target response (typically, the "Harman curve").

These new headphones seem to comply stunningly well with that target curve. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/t...

Re: “Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

#272

Post by Spooky23 »

iggldiggl wrote: post #203
Spooky23 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For consumer electronics? More like 15%. Less for competitive SKUs. Retailers make more money on cables and mounting brackets than a TV, for example.

I bought my current digital camera when one big-box electronics retailer had a special "we're paying your VAT" offer going on – over here, VAT is 19 %, and when the shop assistant entered the rebate, the POS system popped up a warning that the sale price was less than the shop's cost price. I don't remember the exact price, but it does indeed mean that the margin must have been less than 16 %.

When I worked a big box retailer in the 90s, usually the stuff that had fancy displays had a more generous margin. There’s also below the line margin from paid shelf placement and other things.

Re: “Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

#273

Post by em500 »

onemiketwelve wrote: post #234
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be a naive DIY hobbyist who was outraged by how much more expensive commercial products were compared to the parts cost. But of course what you say is true. Electronic and software design, physical design, productisation, marketing, distribution, packaging, support, business premises, logistics, and backup business services (payroll, accounting) all cost money. Even a nominal markup of 40% may not be enough…

I think that response is natural especially for anyone who builds things, software or otherwise. But my mindset completely changed after listening to a lot of economics stories on planet money. There was this dude who tried to make a simple toaster on his own, down to refining metal. None of us can make even the simplest consumer product, let alone an consumer electronic product economically. https://www.npr.org/2014…

This seems similar as the point made in the well known essay I, Pencil (1958)[1]. You can buy a box of pencils in Staples for something like $0.10 apiece. But no individual, and probaly no small businesses would be capable of making some pencils from raw material (skipping even the step of harvesting the raw material).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Pencil

Re: “Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

#274

Post by anuvrat1 »

> Most Chinese factories and engineers are perfectly capable of producing high-end equipment... but their customers don't ask for it.

Now there is a market for good sounding IEM's and headphones, Chinese brands such as Moondrop and HiFiMAN are dominating every price bracket.

They are even innovating, earlier for Planar IEM's you can either have good sound or usability (Audeze isine). Now you have both with 7hz timeless.

The stagnated market has finally started moving, and the pace is insane.

Re: “Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

#275

Post by potmat »

NonNefarious wrote: post #199

A few years ago I decided to move up from what I'd call "good consumer" receivers to something high(er)-end. So I shelled out $1400 for an NAD A/V receiver. This thing is unmitigated trash. It's riddled with design defects and bugs that render it unfit for purpose, some of which are acknowledged by NAD but with no solution. For example: You can't watch 1080p content through it because it reports incorrect EDID info t…

Possibly the problem is the "V" in "A/V". AFAIK NAD was always an audio components company. Introducing video adds a huge amount of complication they were probably not prepared for. But that's just a guess.

As a counterpoint I have an NAD integrated amplifier I bought because it has a Chromecast built in. Even though it was a floor demo model it has never once put a foot wrong for me.

Re: “Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

#276

Post by DrJaws »

anuvrat1 wrote: post #274

> Most Chinese factories and engineers are perfectly capable of producing high-end equipment... but their customers don't ask for it. Now there is a market for good sounding IEM's and headphones, Chinese brands such as Moondrop and HiFiMAN are dominating every price bracket. They are even innovating, earlier for Planar IEM's you can either have good sound or usability (Audeze isine). Now you have both with 7hz timele…

HiFiMAN has really destroyed the audiophile market for other brands. Every single bracket of their products perform like any other company +50% extra price product

Sundaras were amazing, but the new edition XS were just the last straw for competitors, never a headset of that quality was so affordable, the equivalent from other brands can even cost 2x the price.

Re: “Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

#277

Post by systemvoltage »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #204
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #65

> The cost of building a consumer audio product is generally no more than 30% of retail. 30% COGS (cost of goods sold) is virtually a maximum for items sold at mainstream retailers. There’s nothing wrong with this. These are standard ratios, not some dirty secret. The cost of goods sold is only a fraction of the costs that go into getting products all the way into the customers’ hands and supporting them (customer su…

I used to be a naive DIY hobbyist who was outraged by how much more expensive commercial products were compared to the parts cost. But of course what you say is true. Electronic and software design, physical design, productisation, marketing, distribution, packaging, support, business premises, logistics, and backup business services (payroll, accounting) all cost money. Even a nominal markup of 40% may not be enough…

"Why are Fluke meters so expensive?":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay9wFQAW19Y

Dave Jones breaks it down, as usual, very informative.

Re: “Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

#278

Post by [deleted] »

js2 wrote: post #121
Razengan wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowwhere in the GP comment is the word “outraged”. That’s your word. So, what, you wanted to be aghast or something and misrepresented the tone of the original comment with a selective quote and addition of the word “outrage”? Shit HN says. Sheesh. (This comment was a copy of the one above before it was edited)

Okay. I’ve edited my comment for tone and to stick to the facts. I still think the comment I replied to misrepresents the original piece by quoting very selectively and adding the word “dirty”.

[deleted]

Re: “Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

#279

Post by badpun »

Bakary wrote: post #263
gambiting wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a good laugh, have a look at this forum thread - it's like these people are from a different planet. So many posters saying that the NVMe drive has improved the clarity and "richness" of their sound. Fortunately it's a harmless kind of ignorance. https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/62753-nvme-ssd-desi...

It's actually beneficial ignorance. Money is transferred from those who don't know what to do with it into the broader economy.

I doubt any kind of ignorance is beneficial. Ignorance and stupidity are one of humanity's biggest blights, so the less we have them, the better.

Re: “Secrets” about the consumer audio business you may find interesting

#280

Post by v-erne »

chucksmash wrote: post #267
v-erne wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Sure. But that's not in contradiction to individual parts of the system having individual (and different) purposes. But those purposes are only allowed because they serve greater purpose. On their own they are meaningless. >>Btw, not all companies have to make a profit. That's just a pretty common goal. (And if you want your business to stay afloat in the long run, you have to at least break even.) Maybe if You me…

> But those purposes are only allowed because they serve greater purpose. On their own they are meaningless. This gets it backwards. In most places, we haven't arranged society as "everything is banned except for this list of allowed activities," more as "everything is allowed except for this list of banned activities." We're not necessarily good at divining utility of actions when deciding what should be banned, eit…

I was trying to build value framework, not legal one - it does not matters what is allowed or banned if we cannot assess its value in context of sth (I used society in this case).

The free for all strategy (libertarianizm?) may be a great diacovery strategy but it does very little for building and preservin things that works (that were discovered by it). I sincerlly believe that real freedom ends with strongest psyhopaths stomping down on week that are on their way to fullfill their desires.

So even if its all happy accident on the lowest level there is a meta game of rules far above it that prevents our world from collapsing (at least for now)

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