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Is engineering management bullshit?

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Re: Is engineering management bullshit?

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has switched between management and IC work, I’ve found management to be much, much more difficult to do well. Management should be managing people, which is much harder than managing code. Perhaps this is why there are so many bad examples. The job is nearly impossible to do exceptionally well.

But in fuzzy disciplines like management you're allowed not to do well. Engineers are fighting with the law of physics. You can't bullshit your way out of a formula or a bug in your code. Thus when bad managers demand that you do x by end of the day/week/month they put an insane amount of pressure on you because there's only one way out. You have to crack the code, you must figure the problem out. Therefore technical…

> Engineers are fighting with the law of physics. You can't bullshit your way out of a formula or a bug in your code

I mean, structural engineers are fighting physics. Software engineers, generally, are fighting information theory. FWLIW, I spent 15 years as a (quite successful) programmer with a lot of bullshittery going on about what code works. Have you never shipped buggy code and played it down b/c of time constraints or you were just tired or not motivated or realized this bit doesn't actually need to be perfect?

That's actually why I switched to being a people manager - I was a mediocre programmer that people thought was exceptional because I was good at the b.s. I find people management much more difficult to do well, and much more rewarding when growing junior eng into senior eng compared to shipping a bit of code.

Re: Is engineering management bullshit?

#422
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Project Manager is a non-executive role. They facilitate the flow of information that keeps a project on track, including reporting progress up. A Technical Lead, Design Lead, and/or Product Lead is the final arbiter of executive decisions about how a project will be completed. A Coach meets regularly with ICs to help debug workflows and interpersonal issues. A Manager signs paychecks, and takes responsibility for…

Thanks, that's an good breakdown. I'm curious, is this an ideal or a pragmatic approach? At first blush, I understand the distinctions but it feels more like a theoretical organization rather than a real one. I've personally never worked in an org with all those roles so, as you say, they tend to get mashed together. It does seem like there would be a naturally pressure to lump together the roles. I suspect that if y…

In my opinion it’s a pragmatic approach. When these roles get lumped together it creates conflicts of interest that have materially adverse effects on productivity.

That said, you’re right most companies will hire 50 engineers and 10 managers before they hire a single coach or project manager. Or allow IC leads to make their own decisions. So for those companies it’s theoretical. :)

But these roles all exist. You’ll find job listings on LinkedIn for all of them. So they’re happening somewhere!

Re: Is engineering management bullshit?

#423

This is such a tired take. It's part of a steady stream of commentary that reads something like "non-engineering-role X is bullshit." Here, we see engineers reduce the contributions of such common roles as: Product Manger, Program/Project Manager, Scrum Master, Marketer, CEO, etc., as fungible or run by the biggest boogeyman of all, the dreaded MBA. These arguments most typically result from not an inability, but an…

How are you reconciling your take against the actual content of the article?

Re: Is engineering management bullshit?

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a huge difference between managers who can get a project over the finish line and ones who can get multiple large projects over the finish line. I'm not saying that Admiral Rickover didn't/couldnt do that but many managers are effective at cracking the whip and making X happen but at the expense of their teams health which leads to burnout and turnover. I'd also say military management is significant…

Rickover was near the top echelons of US navy for ~60 years, as far as I know. Definitely, he knows a thing or two about burnout and turnover. He executed many, many sophisticated projects throughout his life. That's why he had such a long & successful career. I'd recommend reading his book - The never-ending challenge of Engineering. In my readings, this has been the best book on Engineering management. Secondly, ab…

Author of the article here. I bought one of Rickover's books and am currently reading through it. Thanks for the recommendation.

Re: Is engineering management bullshit?

#425

The author seems to be using "Sociopath" in the Gervais Principle sense, not as a general slur. Always worth a read: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

This is a good point to call out. I'm going to add a link in the article.
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