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Startups Are Hard. So Work More, Cry Less, And Quit All The Whining

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Re: Startups Are Hard. So Work More, Cry Less, And Quit All The Whining

#51
This is insane. You realize that all the quotes are from a post called the author describes as a 'cautionary tale'? (http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nscpdorm.html)

I think jwz sums it up best in another post, where he talks about the best case scenario: becoming rich from your startup:

I've known dozens of instant-millionaires so far (from Netscape as well as other companies), and basically, I don't speak to any of them any more, because the money changed them and turned them into fairly creepy people. People who spend $10k on a wristwatch and then brag about it (while trying to aloofly sound like they're not bragging about it.) People whose sense of self-worth has gone nonlinear, because when they look at their brokerage statement, they forget that, while skill was certainly a component of why they got to where they did, luck was also a huge component. Most of these people have never worked for a company that built a good product and failed anyway. They don't have any understanding of the fact that skill is often necessary, but always insufficient. They believe their hype.

-- http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/corleone.html

Re: Startups Are Hard. So Work More, Cry Less, And Quit All The Whining

#52

There's work. Then there's productive work. What pisses me off is having to pull an all-nighter doing ultimately meaningless work. In startups there can be a lot of meaningless work unless you have all your ducks lined up both strategically and tactically. The older I get, the more I realize that having your ducks lined up requires presence of mind, clarity, and focus, all characteristics that are fleeting when you'r…

As a student, I agree completely with your above philosophy. It seems to me that just about everything in your article could be generalized to just all sorts of work, rather than just the sort of works in startups.

Re: Startups Are Hard. So Work More, Cry Less, And Quit All The Whining

#54
My day job is just hitting 5 years. Of the original team hired under the founders only about 30% of us are left (we've hired some replacements), and the founders were part of the group that was cut.

Watching the founders leave was the hardest because you could watch them slowly come to terms over the first couple of years that:

a) this actually is harder work than what we left

b) it's not just somebody tossing money at you to go work on your pet projects and screw around, treating the expense account like a personal luxury account

c) there is a reasonable expectation by the investors at the end of all of this that they will make their money back off of your work

Surprisingly, making the transition to a professional management team was easier than working with the original founders. During the tenure with the founders they made all of the mistakes above, plus acted like petulant children when they ran into each of these problems. Whining, foot stomping (literally), crying, flying cross-country to be away from the team and showing up unannounced at a satellite office. Bizarre behavior.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not just the work that's hard. It's the intestinal fortitude to deal with technology, business and people, day in and day out -- especially when all three of those things are often acting at odds with each other that makes startup life hard, and being small, with startups those things can be magnified out of all proportion. Minor office quibbles turn into nuclear explosions, a broken technology stack a looming iceberg, lack of sales ability into a waiting sink hole.

People often remark about the perks of working at a startup, but it's those perks that make the often miserable part of the work tolerable. Or at least act as transparent incentives to work more, cry less and quit all the whining -- because at least you get three free meals a day!

Re: Startups Are Hard. So Work More, Cry Less, And Quit All The Whining

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that sounds fair. Two hours is indeed not sustainable except in sprints. Though I've known spooky people who seem to be able to get by with not much more than that on a sustained basis.

> Though I've known spooky people who seem to be able to get by with not much more than that on a sustained basis. Yes, but these people are (physiologically) the exception not the rule (this characteristic is not uncommon for sailors, for some types of race sailing it's pretty much a base requirement).

You are talking about polyphasic sleep, which when you train and skill is a great tool to sleep less, but I think these guys are not talking about that, they talk about being "la tête dans le guidon" as we say in France => head in the handlebar litteraly, or "sous l'eau" => underwater. It is a myth. Startups are all about creativity. If you don't sleep enough, you are not creative. PERIOD.

Re: Startups Are Hard. So Work More, Cry Less, And Quit All The Whining

#56
post #51

This is insane . You realize that all the quotes are from a post called the author describes as a 'cautionary tale'? ( http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nscpdorm.html ) I think jwz sums it up best in another post, where he talks about the best case scenario: becoming rich from your startup: I've known dozens of instant-millionaires so far (from Netscape as well as other companies), and basically, I don't speak to any of the…

I don't think people appreciate the money aspect enough. It does change people and not always along a vector you would expect. It also changes people who don't get rich.

Your a low number employee and your company goes public, woohoo you are rich, but people who work with you and came later and are doing the same job as you are not. The cognitive dissonance is huge, people sometimes feel guilty that they are rich and their co-workers aren't, sometimes they feel like they 'must be smarter' because they are rich and their co-workers aren't. Newly rich people want to marvel in it, and share how amazing it is that they can spend 10K on a watch if they feel like it, and the people around them, doing the same work and not rich, well they often aren't all that appreciative of what it must be like.

Those relationships get awkward quickly. And people separate so that they can be with other people where their lifestyle (or lack of it) won't be a source of awkwardness.

Not a lot of people talk about the side effects of 'success' but they should think about it.

Re: Startups Are Hard. So Work More, Cry Less, And Quit All The Whining

#57
post #48
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are believing exactly what investors and VCs want you to believe. You aren't escaping wage slavery, you are just substituting a different slavemaster. Wake up. There are billions of people on this planet. Do you think that the ones who aren't in Silicon Valley startups are all miserable ? Their lives aren't worth living? Ok, but more specifically. Let's say you want to lead a creative existence, working with tech…

Thanks, that's some cool ideas right there! Upvoted for truth and justice. I'm all for exploring unconventional lifestyle design patterns. And I have been nursing certain plans of becoming a techno-hippie :)

Thanks. By the way -- another possibility is to work for technology projects which aren't really in the startup game.

A lot of my friends work for the Wikimedia Foundation, Thunderbird, Mozilla, Tor, and so on. There's no possibility of walking away as a zillionaire, but neither do you have to work with (or for) dickwads who are only in it for the money and who are out to screw you out of your share. And if you're any good, there's a guarantee of doing something significant that you can point to later on your resume, should you want to go the entrepreneurial route. These organizations are global, so you get to do a fair bit of travelling too.

Non-profits have their own special brand of problems, but if you tally up the pros and cons they are definitely an option.

Re: Startups Are Hard. So Work More, Cry Less, And Quit All The Whining

#58
post #51

This is insane . You realize that all the quotes are from a post called the author describes as a 'cautionary tale'? ( http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nscpdorm.html ) I think jwz sums it up best in another post, where he talks about the best case scenario: becoming rich from your startup: I've known dozens of instant-millionaires so far (from Netscape as well as other companies), and basically, I don't speak to any of the…

I don't think people appreciate the money aspect enough. It does change people and not always along a vector you would expect. It also changes people who don't get rich. Your a low number employee and your company goes public, woohoo you are rich, but people who work with you and came later and are doing the same job as you are not. The cognitive dissonance is huge, people sometimes feel guilty that they are rich and…

My point in quoting that wasn't that success is necessarily bad for you (Alex Ohanian seems to be doing okay, and jwz is himself a counterexample) it's that success in that sort of business has a large random component.

The point of the OP's post is that huge sacrifices are necessary for great rewards. I think the truth is more like, your huge sacrifices are necessary so that our investment strategy works.

Meanwhile, guys like patio11 and the 37 Signals team have shown there's plenty of different paths to success. And if you think about what people like Jimmy Wales or Tim Berners-Lee have done, there's lots of ways to "make a dent in the universe" without even forming a traditional company. I know this is crazy talk, but not all roads to greatness involve making a VC rich.

But you know, now that I think about it, I think people are going to read what I just posted and only zero in on the "dozens of instant millionaires" sentence and ask how can I get in on that?

Re: Startups Are Hard. So Work More, Cry Less, And Quit All The Whining

#60
post #23

I'm so glad I was pushing 30 before I really became aware of this startup scene. The general impression that comes off, to me at least, is work hard, stop moaning, accept pennies and one day you'll be rich - assuming that unlikely outcome happens and we don't use of the thousand ways possible to screw you out of any riches. To me at least, and as an outsider, I'd say things like this may hold up for founders, but as…

I'm in my early 20s. Startups seem to be the only way out of 40 years of mediocrity in TPS-land for me, so I don't really think I have much of a choice. It's startups or nothing for me. Or maybe I am being myopic? Are there more options to be had in life than mediocrity/wageslavery vs glory/startups?

Just because you're starting a company doesn't mean you need to raise millions of dollars, work 80 hours a week, and try to become the next Facebook.

Alternatively, you can raise (or save) a moderate amount of cash, work comfortably at whatever pace you choose, and build something scalable and sellable. If you're making quality software, it's not difficult to generate enough passive income to support the lifestyle you want to live.

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